A short rant on how we might be relying on ratios too much when communicating espresso, and some of the problems when talking about specific recipes.
Barista Hustle’s Espresso Compass: https://baristahustle.com/blog/the-espresso-compass/
Barista Hustle’s Coffee Compass: https://baristahustle.com/blog/the-coffee-compass/
Music: King Seven – “Slippers”
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Today, we’re gonna have a little bit of a rant about espresso ratios and espresso recipes. And the increasing confusion between the two and some of the problems with those things. So let’s start with ratios. Ratios refer to the ratio of ground coffee at the start of your dose.
Let’s say you brew with 18 grams to the liquid weight of espresso. So let’s say 36 grams of liquid espresso in the cup. So that’s a two to one ratio. Brewing ratios go back to maybe I think around 2007, there was a load of work done on the Homeroaster forum.
Particular shout out to Andy Schechter for producing some of the first kind of tables that kind of codified espresso ratios. A couple of things happened. One, it was around the time we were starting to transition from measuring espressos volume to espressos weight. And that really accelerated once refractometers came
On the scene and we began to really, really understand the impact of the liquid weight in the cup and how important maintaining those ratios were. But back then, it was just kind of interesting way to talk about espresso and begin to communicate it. I think I found the first photo I took
Of weighing a shot and I remember being kind of stunned at the difference between the volume and the weight of that espresso. It was a ton of crema so it looked much bigger than it weighed. Now, this early work by people like Andy Schechter began to kind of describe more objectively
What a Ristretto was, what an espresso was, would a Lungo might be and it was to do with these kinds of ratios. So a one to a one or a one to 1.5. That was kind of a Ristretto. A ratio of one to two was kind of espresso
And a ratio say one to three was closer to a Lungo. And that was useful because it gave us some definitions. But at the same time, ratios were kind of just abstract, philosophical ideas. And they were also kind of shortcuts for descriptions of strength. A Ristretto brewed well at this ratios would be
Maybe 13, 14%. A Lungo, maybe six to 8%. An espresso brewed well, maybe 10%. And by that, I mean, 10% of that espresso was dissolved solids. 90% of that espresso was still water. What we’ve seen increasingly is roasters begin to use ratios as a way to communicate how to brew their coffee.
And I know I’ve done it myself, thinking about it more and more, it’s actually not particularly helpful. If I say brew espresso to two to one, I’m kind of just saying make espresso. Don’t make a Ristretto don’t make a Lungo, make an espresso.
And the implication is that 18 to 36 is really just the same as 20 to 40 or 22 to 44. And that isn’t the case. That isn’t the case at all. They should ideally have the same strength if they’ve all extracted equally well but in the real world, that’s, that’s unlikely,
Because in the real world of espresso recipes, there are a whole matrix of things that go into impacting what a good recipe is going to be, the size and quality of the basket in your espresso machine is one. The quality of your grinder is another. The quality of your brewing water is another.
The espresso machine itself. Then let’s get into the coffee, the roast level, the altitude that it was grown, the density of it, the post-harvest process. All of these things impact how easy it is to extract that coffee. And so saying anywhere is fine.
Any recipe is fine as long as it’s two to one. Well, that isn’t really true because if you take a light roast, very high grown washed coffee, and you have a cheap entry-level grinder and a cheap entry-level espresso machine, you don’t want to be putting 20 grams of coffee
Into an 18 grand basket. You will have a bad time. And what we’ve failed to do is give, I think, better and better guidance on starting dose because that’s really, that’s the easiest thing. If I give you a starting dose, you can work out ending weight. Brewing times, by and large, we’re somewhere
In the 25 to 35 second region. Unless you’re doing weird things with pre-infusion. And so some guidance there is useful, but actually this ratio, this relationship between ground coffee and liquid espresso is really super important. But ratios on their own are not enough. They’re not particularly useful.
You may as well say, “Hey, here’s our espresso blend. Brew it at 10% strength.” Because by saying brew it one to two, that’s the same thing. You’ve said the same thing. And you’ve said seemingly lots but also nothing at all, nothing really super useful.
Now, as I said, I, I’ve been guilty of this. You know, it became very easy to get wrapped up in these super neat convenient recipes. And I think that the other thing we’ve really failed to communicate is that they are a starting point.
So you wanna start from a realistic place from your setup. And I would always say, go go lower dose. Unless you need a lot of liquid espresso, set yourself up for success by starting with a lower dose of coffee. Don’t start at 20. Don’t start at 18. Maybe start at 16 grams, right?
Unless you need a lot of liquid espresso for some reason, let’s say you’re making a big milk drink. Sure, you might wanna start with a lot more ground coffee, but if you, you just want a really great tasting shot, whether that’s a thing 30 gram or 32 grandmas, 34 gram shot,
That amount of liquid variance doesn’t matter in terms of the drinking, but the quality of extraction absolutely matters to the enjoyment, to the aftertaste, to the just delightfulness of that espresso. Right. So we’re gonna start, let’s say at 16 grams, start with 16 to 32, but that’s, that’s our starting point.
And you have to accept that your setup will need some tweaking and tuning. Your brew water, your grinder, all of these things mean you’ll have to experiment. And Barista Hustle have a great chart for navigating, when to go finer, when to go coarser, I’ll link to that down below.
I’m not gonna try and reproduce their work. That’s super useful, but I do just wanna say, take a ratio with a pinch of salt. Ratios are abstract, philosophical ideas that they’re perfect because they’re not real. They’re not the real world. A recipe is the real world,
But a really prescriptive recipe should also be questioned. Recipes should be starting points. You should understand why the guidance is there. I would always recommend brewing lower doses of very high grown coffees and I would do low ground coffees like a Great Estate Brazil, you can dose that up
A little bit more and probably enjoy the texture that comes with those kinds of coffees brewed at a one to two or even maybe less. Now I get that there is an audience out there that just wants a simple answer that has bought the good coffee. They’ve got the good setup.
Just give me, just give me the answer. I’ve got limited amount of coffee, I’ve got a limited amount of time, get me to good quickly. And I think by giving really prescriptive answers, we do them a disservice and the coffee that we roast and sell a disservice.
And I hate that there’s no easy answer, but there is no easy answer. Before I wrap up, I will say that I will, in the near future, shoot a version of this video that has to do with how I actually go about dialing in and creating a recipe for a coffee.
I’ll get someone to give me something with very limited information and I’ll dial it in. And I’ll go through the steps about what I’m thinking about, the adjustments that I’m making, why am I dropped my dose, why am I changed my grind or increase the amount of liquid in the cup?
I will go through all of that, but to wrap it up, to wrap it up simply, if you’re looking for guidance, understand that not all two ones are created equal and just brewing at a two to one, doesn’t necessarily get you where the roaster wants you to go.
And if you’re a roaster or a barista trainer or someone communicating recipes, understand how limited the information you’re really communicating, even by giving a really, really, really specific recipe, let’s say one to one to 2.255369, that very specific, but also not at all specific whatsoever. So I think we can do better.
I think we can communicate better. And I think that we’re getting as an industry, potentially a little bit lazy with ratios. And so that’s why I wanted to have just a little, just a little rant about that today. All right, I’m done. Let me know what you think in the comments below.
Let’s have a little conversation about this. As always, thank you so much for watching. I hope you have a great day.
38 Comments
Why is coffee so popular if it is so difficult to make?
I think if I'd finally decided to open my own coffee shop I would need to wash all your videos as a form of crash course on everything about coffee. You really are an awesome expert I must say. I've watched some of your videos like the time you bought coffee stuff from Ikea which happens to be one of my favorite stores 🙂 Keep safe!
The more i watch the less i understand anything.. constantly contradicting yourself and spewing theories but nothing like tests or anything
I know I am very late to this video, but I have felt that way about the shop I work at here in America. I feel like most places I have worked just say, "18g, 25s" and that isn't helpful. Especially when you taste it and know that you have done something wrong, but have no idea how to fix it. You have inspired me to bring this up to my boss so our customers can get the best possible espresso.
You know I have found my self only enjoying your videos on this whole site. I am not sure what your doing though i could compare the feeling I get while watching and listening to your videos to therapy! Thanks for making all this content.
I a m finding that in a 51 mm basket home machine that 15g at a 36g yield is a nice ratio. I also roast my beans almost thru first crack and I guess you would call it city roast. Thank you for your videos!
I would like to learn how to get the perfect pression with the temper.
I have been preparing my coffee for a month and I'm still not sure if I'm putting too much pressure or not.
Is there a good way to learn the correct amount of force we need to apply?
Thanks in advance 😀
Aeropress Unboxing | Espresso Recipe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w-gZRBsjkE
Oh ! I couldn’t agree more. How I wish there was an easy answer. I bought my very first espresso machine not to long ago which is a breville dual boiler and been struggling Sooooo much due to not knowing what exactly I’m tasting and how to adjust for it. I bought some great coffee I love and tried a straight shot of it at the coffee house I buy my coffee at and loved the very nutty flavor, but not able to duplicate that at home. So yes it’s very hard to dial in a coffee you love and a coffee you know of the potential it has but not able to reach that point at home is extremely frustrating
I will take your advice. The next ratio experiment I do I will add a pinch of salt before every slurp.
I remember when first buying my first machine (Silvia), the advice I was given was:
"We'll simplify the answer so you coffee lovers can pass on the information to all of your friends: a single shot of espresso consumes 7 grams of espresso-fine grounds and contains around 30 millilitres of espresso"
mods to machine later and evolving machines and grinders I can't believe they are still peddling this ratio
I wish I could hear Arnold Schwarzenegger say: You don't whant du be pudding twenny grams of coffee in an eighteen gram bahsket; you will have a bad time!
"Take a ratio with a pinch of salt." And there's literally a video on it.
I know that brewing espresso and brewing a manual pour over are two different things, but the concept of ratios is the same. I got started on ratios when I first started learning about manual pour over. Problem is that I dialed it in to a single ratio and even a single grind size without taking in consideration of darkness of roast and origin. Strictly speaking about manual pour over, my grinder is always at 4, my bean weight is 26g, and my water weight is 390g. I'm sure that I could potentially enjoy different coffees more by dialing it in based on roast and origin. To be honest, however, I'm not to the point where I want to put that much work into it. Even though I enjoy doing manual pour over and I've never cared about coffee as much as I do right now, I just want to brew my coffee and then drink it. My concern is that adding more details creates more work, which would turn what I enjoy into a bit of a chore. If I was running my own coffee shop, then I could see the need to have a specific recipe for each origin and/or roast darkness.
Ok… After 2 years I've got a question. But before that: How did I get into coffee? I'm highly coffee addict (in a positive way) but I have the typical issues digesting this delicious liquid (maybe in a more distinct way than others). So… is there a sweet spot in the espresso compass where the espresso ist most digestible?What else should be taken care of?
I’ve just started looking into this again as I used to focus on look and taste but I’m relieved that there’s no one recipe fits all
I needed that rant. I have been focusing too much on ratio. James and Youtube are psychics!!
Thank you, coffee scientist! 🤓
Being someone who just makes coffee at home for myself, I have found out that I adjust the brewing time until I get the right balance between bitterness and acidity. This may be something between 20 and 30 s, depending on the beans. I may also adjust the temperature, higher for lighter roasts. Then, by setting the grinder and the amount of coffee, this decides the volume of the drink. Sometimes I get a larger, and sometimes I get a smaller. But by keeping the optimal brewing time, it will taste good. This is OK for me. I don't bother about recepies, or using a scale.
James, appreciate your work. Could you make a video about why you choose to time espresso from pump-on, rather than first drip? Would love to hear your thoughts in this.
The same problem plagues tea world. People want to know the ratio between tea leaves and water, but how do I communicate, that "the same" jin jun mei harvested on April 10th and 20th need vastly different setup? I provide brewing recommendation for every tea separately, but people are often not happy about it: "Just give me a simple recipe", I hear so often.
On the side note, I love what my teacher in Japan does. He recommends 2.5 teaspoons of matcha per bowl. Considering, that Japanese teaspoons are hand-carved and have no consistency whatsoever, that's a fantastic way to communicate: "Start with 2 spoons and see if you would prefer a little more than that"
I think the easy answer is to just do what tastes right. If you make a shot and it seems a little light then add more next time, or vice versa, people should be able to figure out how to make what they like with a little trial and error, but giving them a general understanding of the variable s might help. I like good coffee, but I’ll also drink Nescafé when offered. If you like it then it’s good.
This is the politest rant I ever heard.
Would love to see what you have to say about classic (7g) vs modern espressos (larger, heavier, supersized american style).
Started experimenting with classic doses and actually liking it. Bit tougher to find a decent basket though.
👏👏👏🙌
@7:45 May I second you? Germans love a good rant too… Could we please stick to the ”correct“ order?
The ratio should be defined as 1 : whatever — because it is about the process of turning 1 part of ground espresso into whatever [more] parts of liquid espresso…
So, do we all agree that by adding water, the amount of our resulting espresso is actually increasing?
Thus, it is not about having a ratio of 2.xxxxx to 1 — but the other way around…
Nevertheless, I have to admit that we Germans like your precision in this very recipe 😉
Espresso is 7g in, 28g out
A double is 14in 2*28 out
in 25-30sec
:p
I wish you could come to my house and set up my machine :0 I've wasted SO much coffee 🙁
Espresso of course did not exist until 2006, many decades of espresso notwithstanding.
In 22 years I have an espresso machine, I never thought about buying a scale or measuring the weight of my cup or counting the seconds of my extraction. I start from looking for the right grind, and I judge that by appearance and taste. When appearance and taste is OK, everything is fine. I don't care about weight and I don't care about time. Bars can serve you very good espressos with very different extraction times, in fact. Try to time the extraction time in bars, and see how they are all around the place. If and when I buy a scale or begin timing my extraction, it will be just out of curiosity. The proof is in the pudding, and "all the rest is literature". I found blends which required very different grindings or very different extraction times to give their best. I am sure that depends also on my grinder, my Baby Gaggia, my way of tampering. There is no way a "recipe" can be repeatable if all the other factors are not included into the equation. I see people in doubt about whether to start their stopwatch from pump on or from first drop, and what about preinfusion, and what if preinfusion is made at another pressure etc. It's just overcomplicating a simple thing. It's just like making bread. There is no clear recipe on how much water your dough will require, because that depends on ambient humidity and flour. When you know how to make bread, you will reach the right quantity of water by sight, and it will be much simpler than with equations.
Over the last couple months I’ve been using a Flair with the 2 in 1 bottomless basket, which is approximately 40mm. Due to the small diameter and thus a much thicker puck, I’ve found the best results come from keeping my dose slightly lower, grinding finer, and extracting a bit longer. This ends up in my “double shot” being more like 16g:36g, or a 1:2.25 ratio. I say this to agree with the premise that the ratios we throw around and so often rely on in specialty coffee are a great starting point, but they are just that… a rough starting point from which to fine tune your input and output to achieve the best result from your setup and coffee
Hello
Beginner shot puller here.
Machine: Breville express Impress
Currently trying different roasts to find my favorite.
Current roast: Equator French Roast
Grind size: 5
17g in – 37g out
Taste is good – balanced (not bitter or sour)
But shot window is only 14sec (starting from first drop in cup)
Is that okay or should I be shooting for a shot window in the 20 some second range?
its art and not science
Hi James, I watch your videos avidly and am glad of the advice and information, I am still a newbie. I recently purchased the Niche Duo with only the espresso burrs, the dual burr version was not available at that time, I have since reached out to Niche who have told me that “filter burrs” are not available as a spare part…..seems somewhat odd that it is not possible to order them separately? Any thoughts? Thanks. Brian.
Terrific video. I have a 7 mg basket and put 8 mg of coffee in it. I produce one shot at 30 oz. That recipe makes absolutely delicious espresso shot after shot and yet I’m guessing that the ratio is probably all wrong. Why is that? Please help this newbie.
I chase that perfect cup all the time that's half the pleasure of it for me. I'm retired I have the time . I've excepted it's like my golf game I'll keep chasing it.
Hey James, shouldn't we take the size of the basket into consideration when we decide how much coffee we put in it? I mean, putting 16 grams of coffee in a 20 grams basket wouldn't be ideal? Or is it another misconception?😢
How very very endearingly british, this rant. All that‘s missing are long winded apologies at the start and at the end. And in the middle 🥰