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In this video, I rate the most controversial wine opinions of my viewers and rank them from reasonable to straight down insane! Thank you everyone for participating in the discussion!
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38 Comments
My takeaway here is something like this:
The comments labeled insane are basically all hot take and clickbait style statements that leave no room for a conversation and are just too binary and extreme overall. It's like the commenter would rather think they are right than learn something or try something new.
They all demonstrate a closed-minded behavior and these people will simply miss out on many good things in life just because their eyes won't be open enough to seeing and trying new things. Their loss.
My opinion, of course.
I feel sorry for people who say they only like one style of wine when there are so many enjoyable wines out there. So many varietals, so many growing regions, so many great producers. So much to enjoy. Should there only be one flavor of ice cream manufactured by only one producer? Much of the joy of wine is in the exploration.
This was mine:
The top 5 of wine regions are:
1. Jura
2. Südtirol
3. Etna
4. Bourgogne
5. Champagne
And the number 1 grape to make any wine with is Riesling.
I think that is quite controversial and also reasonable.
Now regarding the Maroni topic I've had great 99 Maroni points wine, but wouldn't give them more than 91 points. So if someone's up to it, create your own score which is 99 Maroni point wines that actually score above 90 points.
Wow!!! Love it!! It’s so interesting to open discussions on many controversial opinions. This video will be a good reference, I guess.
I was surprised to see my comment about wine rating and I thank you for it, even if we didn’t share the same opinion, but your explanation make sense. About the 100-rating, I would want to see more justifications to go with the ratings, like you do so well it your videos. I think I need to study this question a bit more. 😊
My opinion is that people who fear sulfites and sorbate in wine dont understand wine making or chemistry. They are just influenced by Tik Tok. Any candy or fruit juice you drink will have more of those than you will find in wine. The argument that people made wine for thousands of years without them is flawed as winemakers a thousand years ago added other ingredients that we find insane now (ie lead). They also added things to their wine upon opening such as sea water and fruit. Lastly, remember that Romans would drink watered down vinegar. We have absolutely no idea what wine tasted like back then.
However, I fully agree that Hybrids are 100% overlooked. Better for the environment, and yummy. I would drink a good Traminette any time you want to put a glass in front of me. People need to get beyond the big 6 grape varieties and explore not only more regions but more grapes.
I disagree on aging. Of course, truly great wine will be good on release, but if it is intended to cellar 20 years and it falls short in a blind tasting against something intended to drink on release for 1/3 the price, that doesn't make it inferior or bad value.
I disagree on Luca Maroni. The only consistency I find in his scores is wines he didn't rate are better than those he did. I don't think anyone fits his palette – he's simply found a way to exploit producers willing to pay money for a number.
I was shocked by the comment on restaurant markup. My money goes much further buying wine and drinking it at home. But I can also spend $10 on a steak I cook myself and have it be better than anything served in restaurants. Homemade pasta and risotto are only a few dollars, and most vegetables I cook at home are just as cheap and better than restaurants. I go to restaurants because I want a restaurant experience, and if I saw brick-and-mortar wine prices next to restaurant prices, it wouldn't change what I buy. This is shocking because I assumed everyone who worked hard for their money and then enjoyed going out to eat knew this.
Really fun video. So much insanity out there in the wine world!!!!😂 Happy Sunday morning!!
My opinion is: WSET is wrong for setting the BLIC standard for defining quality in wine:
1) intensity is simply depending on stylistic. Infact, many wine bottles who are described as "elegant" do not display pronounced aromatics. If we considered it as important as balance then sweet wines (and grapes like Gewürztraminer) would be tendencially way more valuable (and acclaimed) than dry whites made from non aromatic varieties.
2) complexity should somehow be subordinate to balance, too.
Instead, precision (or clarity) should take its place. Take icewine or TBA, for instance. They earn high praises mostly due to the very specific set of aromatics which remind you of their origins (tipicity). Certainly you can name fewer descriptors than with good quality barrel aged reds, like classified Bordeaux or CDP.
These should be judged using different references.
I have only been drinking wine for a few years and like a lot of people here in the United States I started out with the sweet wine and then I went to semi-sweet I have tried some dry wines that aren't bad but I find more of the dry wines just tastes like rubbing alcohol and you cannot taste any fruit in it is that because the one that I have chosen is an inferior wine? When I smell the wine in the glass I can definitely smell fruit but yet when I taste it there's no fruit there.
I don't know how controversial this is, but I think that while having a passion for wine is great, just like with any passion (see: cinephiles, audiophiles, bibliophiles, melophiles, etc.) it tends to breed a lot of silly (putting it kindly) opinions and people would do well to remember that opinions held passionately aren't the same as facts.
Regarding my comment from the previous video that you highlighted here (thanks, btw!), I’d like to elaborate a bit more. Obviously in German-speaking countries (and others in Europe, I imagine) wine shops will likely have a solid or even strong German selection. However, elsewhere in the world, such wines are often ignored or grossly under-represented compared to those from France, Italy, Spain, and the United States. Therefore, I think I should have previously specified that the easiest way to size up a wine shop’s selection in the U.S. is to look at its German section – if it’s extremely basic, it seems likely to me that such a retailer either lacks knowledge about German wine along with the means to promote it, or views it all as unserious and not worth selling. On the other hand, if the selection is well-chosen and at least somewhat stylistically diverse, I think it’s safe to assume that the shop’s other categories will follow suit and are also worth exploring.
Lucca Maroni scores very differently from others. For me it's just useless.
I went to a restaurant in Seattle where the wine markup was less than 50%, what a breath of fresh air. I expect about 100% which makes it a hard sell, often get a cocktail instead.
This was fun! I can’t agree more. Especially on the last topic. Great value is everywhere even – if not especially – in the classic regions.
The exploration never ends! 🍷
I have to address the belief that great wine should be great upon release. I think this is crazy untrue. How many times have you tasted a red that has very high tannins but you know these tannins will doften in a few years and allow the rest of the wine to shine? I can tell you that this has happened to me many times. WHen you know evem a lottle about wine you can prettymuch taste sense that if the wine mellowd a bit with age it will be amazing. On top of all of this, a great Cab or what you feel will be a great Cab in a few years develops notes that only come with aging and those aged notes helkp that wine become amazing.
I think the biggest belief to address is the belief that a wine score should take into account the price of the wine. To me, this doesn't make sense. If I bought a wine for $5 does that mean it should rate 92 which means "An outstanding wine of exceptional complexity and character. In short, these are terrific wines.""? A good wine is a good wine, no matter how much or little it costs.
9:53 Agnese in her padawan era
Edit: and 10:13 too
You mention Champagne as an example to the comment on 40$ mark -> above is just marketing.
But I don’t think you closed your argument. I’m visiting the Champagne region just now (and suffer from the heat!) and the other day I sat in the private living room of a small grower and we discussed big vs small houses. He want people to go and visit the big houses because they have a package ready for you but also he wants people to visit the small house for comparison. We liked the Champagne from the big house and it would probably be a crowd pleaser as dull as it was but for half the price I bought cases from his and other small houses. So here ‘above 40$’ is quite true.
Cork taint has NOT diminished one bit over the last ten years. You live on Earth you can have an earthquake. You seal with cork you can have cork taint.
Your response to the criticism of “drink what you like” was beautiful. Brava!
I love how you answer each question not from your perspective but the senders one. You have an incredible way to fluctuate your opinions without ever attacking the others, but at the same time you make a point that just sounds logic and it’s hard to disagree with. I admire you way of articulating and speaking fluently, it’s easy to tell you are right person to talk to. 12:35
I always bring my own wine to restaurants and pay the corkage fee.
THe problem with the 100 point system is that there is basically just 80 to 100. Very few wines score below 80, and honestly tasters aren't gonna bother with wines they know are terrible. Also, anything made half decent is basically 88+ with an enormous number that are 89-92. Would love to see a wider range of scores, but aint nobody gonna start that trend.
Also, the number of people who can actually recognize cork taint is incredibly small. The idea that 1 out of 12 bottles are corked, which is something i have heard from many different people, is just crazy to me. As a waiter for 35 years now, I have had ONE bottle that i opened that someone said was corked. Thats out of thousands of bottles opened.
Great fun to watch, and great responses to the opinions – mostly really measured, and when a shoot down made more sense, you had a reason! One perhaps different opinion we have (as Kiwis) is that we generally don't like the "classic" Marlborough style of sauvignon blanc – not saying it's bad (very chilled, on a hot day, it can be great), just that we generally prefer other styles.. It seems likely that the "classic" style is what most people think of whenever "NZ sauvignon blanc" is mentioned. Most people won't have had the chance to try the different styles SB is made in here, from one end of the country to the other, to find it's not all cat-pee-on-a-gooseberry-bush (strained through young blackcurrant leaves).
Some nuance about great wine opened too young – I’ve had some top quality Barolo and Burgundy upon release that have been mostly unpleasant to drink, but will definitely unravel and soften into incredible wines in time. Domaine Prieure Roch comes to mind from recent tasting.
You can still tell the quality is there, but they are currently firm, tight, and closed. Have you experienced something similar? And does this experience mesh with your answer here?
Fun video, some fun questions in there.
I still don't get, that for argument sake, the same expert rates a cheap wine the same score as a very expensive one, so then what these two rating should mean?
If one rates a Remrandt alongside a diletant's painting the score could't be the same! Otherwise what is what?
Re. wine temperature in bars/restaurants. I avoid drinking red wine here in London cause most times they are served at room temperature even if that means 35°C on a heatwave… Most places just don't care about red wine temperature!
OK I agree I overdid it, and it sounded insane. But my opinion probably was so insane beacuse I tought about this not only in terms of wine bottle price, but going there. Going for a week to Rioja, Bordeaux or Loire Valley would be much more expensive than going to Slovenia, Croatia or Hungary. That's probably my first fallacy.
Second thing here in Poland it's really hard to get really good french or spanish wine for 20-30€ and You can get much better Austrian, Hungarian or even domestic wine for that price. That's probably my second fallacy.
I never went to any of this western wine regions and it will probably be as easy to find well priced wines there, but if we limit our budget to 12-18€ will it be as easy to find something that is bang for bucks in Bordeaxu, Rioja or Rhone as in Austria, Slovenia, Hungary or Romania?
Saying Burgundy would be silly to not take the money is so inapropriate and mind-blowing. All french sommeliers are complaining about not being able to put Burgundy on their wines list, french people cannot offers themselves a good Burgundy anymore. I hope what happened to Bordeaux wines and Cognacs will hit them as well and destroy their arrongance and venality.
Burgundy wines are so overpriced, fact.
Just have to laugh. What is “quality” wine? Wine you like? Wine Robert Parker likes? The debates, and the snobbery of some, is endless. I like wine, Parker likes wine, we both explore many. His advice is gold, you might question mine. Enjoy, it’s endlessly entertaining.
There are definitely great wines that aren't enjoyable to drink on first release and later become delicious. I bought a case of 2017 Chateau Les Carmes Haut-Brion, a very highly rated wine, and tasted it at 5-years old. It was awful, unbelievably disappointing. 18 months later I tried it again, with a view to selling the remaining bottles if I still felt the same way, and it was unrecognisably fabulous. That extra aging made all the difference. And this is true of many Bordeaux wines.
I wouldn't call it an inferior grape, but a lot of Pinot Noir is overrated and overpriced.
I love The Who – went to amazing gigs of theirs in Brighton and London in 1979, 1999 and 2010 – but have never heard anyone describe them as underrated. They are widely considered to be one of the greatest rock bands of all time. You might have to check your friends.
You're SO right about "drink what you like". But the justification for restaurant wine list mark-ups is not credible at all – grasping at straws. In London restaurants there is usually pricing at least three or more times the retail price of wine, and no restaurant is paying the full retail price to begin with. So they can make £20 profit on a bottle or £200, for the same amount of work and facilities, but the diner is incentivised to steer clear of the upper reaches of the wine list. When I eat out in London, I know what everything on the wine list should cost, and the wines I drink at home are suddenly right out of my price range. I'm so offended by the pricing that I often skip wine and have cocktails instead.
I'm fine with screwcaps on any wine. I really wish certain wineries would stop with those hateful plasticky wax seals that make an ungodly mess.
Common, Luca Maroni is doing harm to the industry. It is not a matter of different taste. The man has sold his soul.
I think Burgundy is way way over priced and not worth for me to even explore further. California make some great pinot noir that are way more consistent year to year. The anti pinot comment I can understand because pinot is a difficult grape and trying to sample the very low end ones can put off someone for good. I was in the situation for the first 10 years or so. I like most of your comments but I wish you have a lesser European bias and give California wines more exposure. Try ROAR pinot.
For the people who are just starting to drink wine or thinking about drinking wine.
Wine is a very tricky thing. It is very hard to taste the notes of the wine or smell. Because it can have a very faint taste or be big and bold. I myself have been drinking wine and champagne for about just under 3 years and I am just now finding out what notes and flavors are in all the wines and champagnes I smell and taste.
I have even noticed I can taste flavors in different kinds of food. Especially if I am drinking a glass of wine with it. Some tastes I would not even noticed if I had not had a glass of wine with the meal.
Also some wines i have had that were very young sometimes had a very strong smell and taste. And I have other wines almost 20 years old and they not have very much taste. It just depends on the grape variety
And temperature. And the way it was stored in a wine cellar.
Also you don't have to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on a bottle of wine to get a good wine. I have had 5 dollar bottles of wine and i have had 25 dollars bottles of wine over the years. And I find the best wines i drank are between 10 to 20 dollars bottles of wine.
I agree that the second part of my comment was a little controversial. What I meant (and what I hope would happen), is that the increased transparency would simply help consumers make an informed decision about the potential quality of the wine (or at least more intelligently support operations whose practices they agree with), and then the market and supply & demand would work as intended to hopefully "separate the wheat from the chaff", bringing down inflated prices and increasing prices according to the new and informed demand in the market. Or at the very least, consumers will be more likely to make purchasing choices that align with their palate and values.
Good video!
It's so narrowing to just drink the same wine all the time. Thousands of wines in the world, every bottle should be a discovery! Sure, I have my "go-to" regular bottles, but I always try to pick up something different or that I haven't tried before whenever I'm out shopping to stock my wine refrigerator. 🍷