How much does terroir really matter in wine? Is there a difference? Join be on a blind tasting of the same grape, grown in two different regions to see if terroir made a difference.
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🥂 Wines featured in this episode:
Garofoli, Supera Verdicchio di Maletica 2021 https://rebrand.ly/garofoli-verdicchio-matelica
Garofoli, Macrina 40th Anniversary Verdicchio de Castello di Jesi 2021
00:00 A discussion on Terroir and wine
03:19 Bling tasting for Terroir
05:31 The Reveal
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Lion Geeks love to talk about terroir a sense of place that’s what makes wine unique really special but how much does that really matter in terms of what’s in the glass terroir is a French term actually a lot of wine making terms that people use all around the world are
French and jancis Robinson’s Oxford’s companion to wine under the terroir section they list the following factors climate measured by temperature rainfall sunlight energy or insulation received per unit of land surface area relief or topography the elevation slope and aspect geology and pathology determining the soil’s basic physical and chemical
Characteristics and hydrology which is soil water relations one thing that I think is left out of the discussion when it comes to terroir is culture or a specific producer or the person let’s face it why does it make itself and put itself into the bottle as much as we’d
Like to be romantic about the wine historically the production of wine was always shaped by the markets a lot of people mistake different wine faults or other chemical processes in the fermentation process or things derived from the oak barrels or aging as terroir when actually that’s not the case the
Argument against terroir is technology has improved so much in the vineyard and in the cellar that winemakers can control fine little factors and how a wine turns out the style of wine its flavor therefore that covers up our masks that terroir however things like climate soil aspect you think of things
Like clay that retain moisture and retain heat a little bit more are good for varieties like Merlot especially in Bordeaux I found that I’ve always preferred Grenache based wines on their own grown in Sandy soils if you include the human element the culture how that Wine’s made the land in which the grapes
Are grown determine what kind of varieties you’re going to plant a lot of wine makers that are very skilled can taste grapes close to the Harvest can determine what type of wine they want to make the quality of grapes that are coming into the cellar determines the different types of techniques that wine
Makers use the land does produce the great material which then the winemaker will take that grape ferment it give it its ultimate expression and finally get the wine that’s in Your Glass by that definition I guess all wines are actually terrible terrible driven even even bald lines stuff that you find in
The supermarket those are made with inexpensive grapes the land the climatic conditions that’s going to determine the type of wines it’s going to be made with those grapes the terroir determine the wine in essence wine is simple it’s enjoyable to drink it’s alcohol it’s fermented grape juice but on the other
Hand there are so many other factors that go into wine Pinot Noir is often described as a terror driven variety well you have other white grape varies like Riesling Shannon Blanc varieties that show off more earthy mineral notes and then to a lesser extent an interesting great performant from hungry
That’s responsible for Toca it’s quite a neutral grape variety very sensitive to different places it’s grown in Hungary okay that being said we’re going to take a look at two different wines from the same grape variety same region one is growing the appellation closer to the Sea the other is grown in Appalachian
Inland closer to the mountains with a little bit higher elevation the grape I have here is verdicio from Marque in Italy documented being in Marquee since at least the 16th century it’s also the same grape as triviano De Suave it’s also grown in lugana it’s known as one
Of Italy’s Finest white grape varieties that’s the critic opinion that’s my opinion too this is the same producer just two different appellations you ready I’m ready let’s blind taste something we’re looking at the subtle differences in tear bar so high of the gaprio glass standard editions beautiful Universal
Glasses I think they are going to work great with verdicchio I have a link in the description box if you want to check them out helps the channel if you purchase with that link so thank you as always I core of in these babies have to be real careful and taste through it’s
Black five season it’s the summer when I’m shooting This I Gotta make sure black flies don’t get into the wines let’s start out with number one here verdicchio has this lemony acidity almost a mandarin fruit type characteristics has some lime type notes as well it also has some almondy
Characteristics number one it is more kind of mineral driven so to speak more Mandarin lime lemon citrusy but I definitely get the Almond here verdico sometimes has a little bit of bitterness in the back end number one this this has incredible acidity it’s really juicy quite nice because these wines aren’t
That expensive actually this is a very nice wine tingles the mouth a little bit has a pretty lengthy finish let’s check out wine number two here wine one on here on the left smells more minimally wine two on the right smells more fruity more citrusy this kind of more white
Apricot white peach type flavors it has a touch of metal but the fruit really jumps out here it feels just like more plump the length on this is nice both of them have like a slightly spicy finish it’s stereotypical but they say sometimes that that Wine’s grown by the
Sea it tastes more salty that’s why I think this one might be there might be something to it I think sometimes the salt from the sea water gets onto the grapes when those are vinified it can be more salty you look at places like Baja California where irrigation is actually
Used with water that has a slight saline into it though so the wines are quite salty you have wines like malvasia de Bosa and Sardinia if you look at pictures during the Harvest they’re coated with salt they’re exposed to the Westerly winds coming off the Mediterranean Under The Grapes
Definitely a difference here they’re both lengthy both long this one here on the left I like a little bit more because it has a little more salinity has more acidity I think the one on the right here is a little more plump might be a little more fruity might be easier
To drink for most people let’s take a look I’m gonna say that this right here is the appellation closer to the Sea this one right here is the appellation up in the mountains I’m really interested to see the reveal here I am 90 points on the one on the
Left I’m 89 here on the one on the right let’s start out with this one I think this was the appellation that’s closer to the mountains let’s take a look this is I got it right this is the same producer same vintage this is the garofali 2021 Superior verdicio de
Metallica 19 bucks verdicated Metallica is a smaller appellation in Market this is grown in the mountains usually with mountain fruit the soil is going to be poor because it’s going to be steep there’s gonna be a lot of erosion that means the yields are usually a little
Bit smaller the wines can be a little bit more concentrated the fruitiness can show through and I picked it up here 19 bucks I think this is very nice especially if you want to get into Radicchio I gave this 190 I was really impressed I said by the Sea and look it
Is this is the garofali macrina this is the 40th anniversary of this wine so 2021 verdicio de castelli de Jesse the largest DLC in Marquez 16 bucks 90 points I thought that was excellent why like I said the one here on the right the sapira it’s from Mountain Vineyards
So maybe it’s a little bit more concentrated here’s where the human element comes into the concept of Terror I know that the verdika de castelli de Jesse yield restrictions are a little bit more generous compared to the verdicate Metallica which the maximum yields are a little bit smaller
Therefore you’re going to have more concentrated grapes so yeah both of these at 13.5 alcohol okay I love verdicchio so tell me what do you think about the concept of terroir do you include the human element I’d love to hear in the comments below thanks a lot I’ll see you soon foreign
20 Comments
Vinous had a great article about Verdicchio about a year ago that put me onto it. Enjoyed both Matelica and Jesi.
I personally have not considered the human element to be part of the definition of terroir. But “terroir” and perhaps “minerality” might be the most contentious terms in all of wine, so no surprise there are differences of opinion.
Great video again i love the difference of the flavours of the terrain make a great impact. Today Robert Parker Gives his new scoring to Casa Castillo (Casa Castillo pie franco 99 points, las Gravas 98 points, and one of my favourite shiraz Valtosca 93+) I recommend Las Gravas for us a great wine and still at good price less than 50€ here and if you can valtosca if you like concentration and complexity (his evolution in the glass omg) less than 20€ here.
terroir is one thing, expressing a specific vineyard is another. as an example, Champaign that was harvested at 17 brix, aged in an oak barrel and later was topped up by a sugar water and yeast and after that it was aged on a lees for years and after that to finish things off they added sugar to balance things out has very little to do with actual vineyard where the grapes came from. it is anything but an expression of vineyard but, if humans and traditions is part of terroir than it can be attributed to that. same goes for Bordeaux which usually is a blend of 74 parcels and four different verities all aged in wood, it has very little to do with expressing a specific location, its more of a stylistic Frankenstein. it is ironic because regions that scream the “terroir” the most are the ones least expressing it😅
Human element is very important.Equaly is land, where the grapes are grown.Those two element affect the taste, unless it is "wine like beverage",made cheapest way for profit.
I think yeast cultures are the least discussed and least visible of the large influences on wine. They are also clearly part of terroir, especially when there is spontaneous fermentation, but cultured yeasts are also linked to the location and local wine culture.
I have owned a brewery and different yeasts had tremendous effects on the end result.
Maybe I'm just turning into a wine nerd but I wish they'd put climate, soil, method, aging etc on the label instead of marketing poetry. Some wineries are nice enough to publish a PDF of all that stuff if you look around their websites carefully enough.
This is such a divisive issue and I think much of the problem is the actual word 'terroir'. There's a rather naughty British wine critic that says the entire concept is pure bunkum concocted by the French wine establishment to make their wine sound more interesting. That up to date techniques and creativity of the wine producer have far more to do with what's in the glass than a mythical, vaguely hippie, term such as 'terroir'.
I have a lot of sympathy with this point of view. Of course it matters what grapes you grow and the soil, climate, etc, etc, but does that make a unique product that can only exist in that plot of land imparting some unique signature? Surely science says no. What if the same conditions exist elsewhere on the planet and grown by the same producer: Why shouldn't they taste the same?
A believer in terroir will counter that reasoning by suggesting that every bit of land has it's own unique geological and climactic signature which transition through to the wine in the glass. The thing is this theory is only ever used when advocating high end wine. It's never an option with mass produced bulk wine even if that wine comes from a region associated with terroir. The Chinese market, for example, gleefully drink affordable French wine but are blissfully unaware that much of that is bulk Spanish wine sold to French merchants and passed off as French. It tastes so French to the Chinese customers though. Top sales people can autosuggest anything. We want to believe in terroir, especially when we visit a Chateau in France or a mountaintop village in Tuscany.
Here's my little challenge and I'll include a type of wine I love: Sherry. It can only be legally called that if it's been produced in the sherry triangle in Cadiz, Spain. The triangle being Jerez, Sanlucar de Barrameda and El Puerto de Santa Maria (a stunning and eye opening wine visit tour for anyone). That wine has a protected Denominacion de Origen status. Furthermore, the name 'Sherry' is protected like Champagne. The cathedral like bodegas that store these wines are designed in such a way to allow special qualities such as sea breeze to influence the end result. Chalky soils and a particular grape are part of the story. Terroir at the max. Here we go though. Lets transport all those qualities in the south west of Spain to the south east of Spain. I'm fairly sure the results would be the same except you couldn't use descriptors such as 'Atlantic sea spray'. Does Mediterranean sea spray taste different? Even volcanic wines, which have a very particular style have a general profile wherever they're made.
This doesn't matter to me in the scheme of things. Let folk enjoy terroir if they want to. The modern mantra is 'what's in the glass'. I'll take this to the extreme. There is a modern Irish whisky distillery that is flogging its stuff under the banner of terroir – Irish soil, ancient barley strains and yeasts. It's then distilled. Take all of that and do it somewhere else and it's the same. WT
I dont think people have anything to do with terroir. Teroir is what the earth and environment give to the wine. Terra is root of the word.
I’m a firm believer in “Terroir”. But there could be desirable “Terroir”, and then the winemaker has the final measure of quality.
Your comments about human intervention trumping terroir are spot on. 👍
One area where terroir really stands out is Chablis with the different soil types. But then you have the difference from oaked and stainless steel only wines.
To me the SS wines really let the terroir shine.
Good examples are Gilbert Picq and Louis Michel.
Just check out Sauvignon Blanc, from Bordeaux, Sancerre, New Zealand, and California, all completely different wines.
Ohhh it is an interesting subject and a confusing one. I live in Moldova and wine makers play around with a lot of different styles. Sometimes between vintages. So it can happen sometimes that you liked a style of a 2018, but then the 2019 changed direction completely and it can't be explained purely by the weather. Then you get wines from neighbouring vineyards producing different styles and in the same year.
That said, I would say that Cabernet Sauvignon from Moldova USUALLY has a specific taste if made to a certain standard and the south of Moldova especially.
Terroir is important as is the attention to details. When both are on a high level you have world class wines.
The only way to really determine the intensity or quality of terroir is to compare wines produced by the same methodology—biodynamic wine is generally a good place to start. A good biodynamic farmer will be able to translate the microclimate directly to the viticulture—but the drawback is wine that can be inconsistent—because it mimicks and reflects the season—so most vintners prefer to manipulate the final product for the pleasure of the consumer. Additionally, there’s levels of olfactory sensitivity—identifying varietal profiles, identifying harmony and balance, recognizing region or terroir, and finally—and most impressive—is when we can rehearse the season itself. Was the season warm, wet, dry—did the varietal ripen early, late, or struggle to reach its potential? Reading the season of the terroir into the varietal is the height of the wine experience. Aloha
If you want to look into terroir differences the Zuccardi Poligonos range is very interesting. For each grape they have bottlings from 3 different areas of the Uco Valley with the explicit goal of making terroir differences noticeable
Second comment rather than a continuation. I love sherry and have a very good collection even though I say so. Sherry and the wines of Montilla are amazing and the best food friendly drinks without a doubt. It does divide the wine world and I know wine folk that just don't relate to sherry but that is a big sadness. I'm big on these drinks Matt so let me know if you want any info.
Great and thoughtful. Terroir,– Burgundy, Rheingau – Mosel -Saar -Ruwer, have very small named vineyards = different terroirs, – so you can tell which vineyard is which over the years. "Terroir" maybe the wrong word. Whatever makes one vineyard taste the same year to year, – vs different from the next vineyard over. What a reason to taste wine = to learn! The grower and all the rest matter maybe even more but are not as trackable over hundreds of years. So "Terroir schmerroir". Great wines and vineyards tell great stories over the years. No one can ever understand it all – which is so great. Many wines will live longer than a human. Montrachet vs Chevalier vs Batard – all can really age 100+ years!!! Maybe Terroir is important? Right? Love your tastings. Thanks Doc!
A Finger Lakes Chardonnay will taste quite a bit different from a Napa Chard, for example. So "terroir" matters, I suppose. Thing is, "terroir" as a concept is so vague that it's not very useful, it contains too many variables and (honestly) is mostly a marketing tool. It's sufficient to simply say that Washington State Riesling will probably taste differently than a Middle Mosel Riesling. My 2 cents worth. 😊
The human element in terroir is paramount, as you can have perfect conditions in all other areas, but if the winemaker(s) doesn't know what they are doing, you could have a mediocre or even a poor wine.
It is a bit of over-romanticizing terroir by excluding the work people do, as it's the people that do trial and error to discover what cultivar/varietal best suits the natural environment. Great video and I love Verdicchio as well. Cheers!😄
I have always understood the French definition of Terroir to include the human interaction as part of the equation. Grapes cannot become wine without it.