SINNERS lead actor Michael B. Jordan and writer/director/producer Ryan Coogler break down the Academy Award®-nominated film and their 10+ year collaboration in this exclusive conversation with IN PROXIMITY host Paola Mardo.
Michael dives deep into his acting process for playing dual roles as Smoke and Stack, sharing how he uses character journals, key phrases from archival recordings, and physical details to build his characters. Ryan reveals his screenwriting approach and his never-before-heard timeline mapping the Smokestack Twins’ backstory, including romances with Mary (Hailee Steinfeld) and Annie (Wunmi Mosaku), and their time in Chicago with Al Capone. Ryan also kicks off this very special episode by making lattes, sharing how his love for coffee connects to filmmaking and acts of service for the cast and crew. It’s gonna be a real ring-a-ding-ding… so grab a cup of coffee (or Irish beer or Italian wine) and enjoy!
(00:00) Smokestack Twins Lore
(00:30) Host Paola Mardo intro
(04:30) The boss today and Michael’s espresso life
(06:00) Ryan makes us coffee: Cannes, George Clooney, set coffee culture, abstract latte art
(09:30) Acts of service
(12:20) From FRUITVALE STATION to SINNERS
(14:35) 1A and 1B on the call sheet, why number 1 on the call sheet means leadership
(19:00) Questions Michael asked Ryan after reading the SINNERS script, the surreal juke joint montage, Stack and Mary
(23:16) Smokestack Twins Lore
(27:12) Stack does Smoke’s hair
(28:38) Smoke’s tremors
(30:55) Journals as part of Michael’s acting process
(32:55) When Smoke and Stack broke up, Ryan’s timeline spreadsheet, Mary, Annie, LORE (!), Chicago, Al Capone
(36:30) How much older Smoke feels from Stack
(38:00) Are you Smoke or Stack? Delta Slim, Mary, mystery, Ryan’s script to Michael’s acting performance
(40:00) “When the actor becomes the expert on the character… the twins are his now… then twins belong to the movie”
(40:25) Stack being a liar, Smoke telling the truth
(42:00) Mike’s improvised moments, Smoke versus Hogwood
(45:23) Preparing for the roles of Smoke and Stack, dialect coach, physicality, different sized shoes, chakra work, childhood trauma
(49:30) Key phrases
(50:35) “Made in Mississippi” documentary archival recordings (directors: William Ferris, Judy Peiser)
(51:51) Drawing from history and real people to bring characters and script to life, Michael’s and Ryan’s family history, sharecroppers, ancestry, Uncle James
(53:22) Scene Breakdown: Smoke teaching a young girl to negotiate, “numbers in conversation”
(56:11) Smoke as “a fun character to write but it was a really fun character to see Mike play”
(58:05) “These are very BAD men”
(58:59) Mike is “like a Tom Hanks!”
(1:00:30) “He never knifed nobody… that I know of!”
(1:04:00) Prox Recs
RESOURCES AND EPISODES FEATURED
Mike and Ryan’s first IN PROX episode https://youtu.be/fuQvwrb9gIQ?si=cAVfzIyGig1xkpVO
Meet D’Lo https://youtu.be/0JGEE489Kks?si=bAhcuaNu50-vIW7C
MADE IN MISSISSIPPI doc https://www.folkstreams.net/films/made-in-mississippi
SHOP OUR PROX BOOK RECS: https://bookshop.org/shop/inproximity
LEARN MORE AND READ THE TRANSCRIPT: https://www.proximitymedia.com
WATCH/LISTEN TO IN PROXIMITY
YouTube https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzYqUBriBd9jNFIs193LhrtNNJ0wCbtDh&si=GgnL6ctyrIn4jwn7
Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/in-proximity/id1671236843
Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/4OIbqX6M3pXU5zOJz1zkZX?si=8a0a8d6e30f64688
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IN PROXIMITY IS A PRODUCTION OF PROXIMITY MEDIA
Host, Director, Producer: Paola Mardo
Executive Producers: Ryan Coogler, Zinzi Coogler, Sev Ohanian
Theme Song and Additional Music: Ludwig Göransson
Co-Director and Director of Photography: Patrick Epino
Sound Designer and Mix Engineer: Ken Nana
Editor: Patrick Epino
Production Sound Mixer: Mark Patino
Camera Operator: Josh Ortiz
Associate Producer: Celine Mendiola
Production Coordinator: Joy Woo
Production Assistant: Devin Saddler
Production Intern: Ben Caloza
Social Media Coordinator: Alexandria Santana
Motion Graphics Designer: Apollo Baldoz
Barista: George Stevenson
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ABOUT PROXIMITY MEDIA
We’re the production company that helped bring you SINNERS, IRONHEART, EYES OF WAKANDA, CREED III, JUDAS AND THE BLACK MESSIAH, SPACE JAM: A NEW LEGACY, STEPHEN CURRY: UNDERRATED, ANTHEM, HOMEROOM, BLACK PANTHER: WAKANDA FOREVER PODCAST & SOUNDTRACK, and more. Watch and listen to IN PROXIMITY podcast.
20 Comments
This man Ryan really be putting together whole parallel universe in his head 39:36
This interview is painfully slow the first 12 minutes. At one point, the interviewer just tapped out and drank coffee. Start at 19:00 when it picks up tremendously.
Ryan Coogler is so interesting
Sinners feels like it’s in the same universe as LoveCraft Country
Love this!!!!
Shout out to you Ryan! I had a curtado! It’s good. From one coffee lover to another.
I love a good cortado. I had one yesterday. I typically stick with an americano or a dippio on the regular, but a good oatmilk cortado situation is a treat!
i will always enjoy hearing about the process, sometimes even more than i enjoyed the movie being talked about..
i just watched it and would like to see it again..i think this time it'll have to be on my laptop bc i caught the reissue in theaters which i was excited for
Good team.
YOU speak well!
I love Ryan Coogler and Michael B. Jordan's work!! They are both masters of their craft. Much love and kudos to them, the casts , crews of each of their films and their families. Much love and light ✨️ 💛
I’m the same age as these guys and lived in the Bay Area when Fruitvale Station came out in 2013-2014. Though it was popular in NorCal, I had no idea they would be the main players of the biggest Blockbuster in 2025.
17:00 michael is telling me he know Denzel and Ryan been stealing from me. I guess going live on Wednesdays and being with Tessa down south ….. working with Ryan was the only way to get my attention. Him with Lori also. Hey michael mom. Its ok. Thanks for admitting it.
Finally can subscribe now that these aren't audio only 😅
The movie of the millennium. All hopes that it wins Best Picture.
i love everything about ryan coogler and i love to hear him speak and could for hours but i really loved the intentional moments where ryan would let MBJ talk about his characters and his process to playing those characters. you can tell ryan is so impressed and proud of his friend for bringing this iconic movie and iconic roles to life off his page. he has so much faith and trust in MBJ. ugh love this pair.
best original screenplay 🎉
When Ryan breaks down Smoke n Stack life before 'Sinners'.., that's part 2 right there., or a whole season…
Incredible movie❤
Well deserved. Well earned. 🏆🏆🏆🏆🔥🔥🔥🔥