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Waldenses vs. Rome: The Church in the Wilderness | Sabbath Evidence
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Waldenses vs. Rome: The Church in the Wilderness | Sabbath Evidence

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Does the witness of the Waldensians as Sabbath-keepers matter for end-time prophecy today?

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In this episode, Alex and James open primary-source historical books and documents to trace the story of the Waldenses, a church whose experience bears similarity to the “church in the wilderness” of Revelation 12.

We walk through the years of persecution, examine Catholic and Jesuit sources (including Sacrosancta Concilia and the Inquisitor’s Manual on torture), and compare modern narratives to older testimony about the Waldenses’ beliefs and experience.

Along the way, we address the big questions:
— Were the Waldenses only a movement that began with Peter Waldo, or do the sources point to earlier roots?
— What did they actually believe about Rome, religious liberty, and church–state union?
— Did any Waldensian groups keep the Seventh-day Sabbath—and what do councils, inquisitors, and trial transcripts reveal?
— What evidence exists regarding their rejection of infant baptism, and how does this intersect with debates about “proto-Anabaptists”?
— Why do “buying and selling” restrictions in medieval records sound so similar to Revelation 13?

You’ll also see one of our most significant artifacts on the table: Samuel Morland’s 1658 History of the Evangelical Churches of the Valleys of Piedmont, including maps, manuscript translations, and sobering martyr accounts. We discuss why we take these books on tour: because history makes a powerful impression, and the final crisis will echo the past.

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📖 Chapters for Waldenses vs. Rome: The Church in the Wilderness | Sabbath Evidence:
00:00 – Introduction: Why the Waldenses Matter Today
01:46 – The “Church in the Wilderness” (Rev. 12) & 1,260 Years
02:09 – Modern Waldenses & Pope Francis’ Visit (A Changed Church)
03:40 – The Big Question: Peter Waldo… or an Older Movement?
04:28 – Did Paul Travel This Route? Early Roots in Northern Italy
05:37 – Sabbath as a “Flag” of True Worship Traced in History
06:22 – Early Witnesses: Vigilantius, Jerome, and Pre-Reformation Protest
07:05 – “From the Time of the Apostles”: Arnaud & Manuscripts Destroyed
08:06 – Jesuit Evidence: Sacrosancta Concilia & Bulls Against Waldenses
09:54 – “Ancient Origin” Heresy & Early “Buy/Sell” Style Restrictions
11:39 – Reinerius Sacco: Waldenses on Sylvester, Baptism, and Salvation
13:59 – Persecution Clip (“Keepers of the Flame”) & Historical Context
15:08 – What Did They Believe? Diet Accusations & Apocalypse Identity
16:59 – Claude of Turin: Sola Fide Before Luther (Faith vs. Works)
19:23 – Schools of the Barbs & Scripture in the Vulgar Tongue
20:35 – The Noble Lesson: Holiness, Obedience, and “Cease to Do Evil”
23:27 – Lifestyle Testimony: Enemies Describe Their Conduct & Methods
26:23 – Morland 1658: Piedmont Valleys, Maps, Manuscripts, Martyr Plates
32:13 – Inquisitor’s Manual: Torture Guidelines, Antichrist Writings, & Last-Day Parallels
34:15 – Answering Adventism Claim vs. Primary Sources (Infant Baptism / Church-State)
38:58 – Sabbath Evidence Cascade: Councils, Inquisitors, Vatican Manuscripts, New Scans
46:32 – Trial Transcripts: “We Rest on the Seventh Day” + No Infant Baptism
48:01 – Miles’ Response: Partial Retraction + Great Controversy Confirmed
51:26 – Death Decree & Cave Tragedy (Le Balm des Vaudois) + Buying/Selling Parallels
55:17 – Final Appeal: End-Time Persecution, Love, Scripture Memory, Loud Cry

Tags: #Waldenses #MarkOfTheBeast #SundayLaw #NoBuyNoSell #Revelation13 #BibleProphecy #ChurchInTheWilderness #GreatControversy #EndTimeProphecy #ReligiousLiberty #ChristianHistory #PersecutionHistory #PropheticHistory #adventist #ThreeAngelsMessage #ReformationHistory #LastDayEvents #HeritageAndHope

50 Comments

  1. @heritageandhope

    📌This one really takes us back to our roots! Opening up our collection of old books and walking through the history side by side. After seeing how buying and selling restrictions were used in the past, what lessons do you think God wants His people to learn for the days ahead?
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  3. @DecimusBlana

    At min 42:36 you quote Eymerich out of context, to prove your ideas. What the snippet you quote says: "Many used to think they observed the Jewish Sabbath." What Eymerich's full argument is: "Many used to think that […] but I do not believe this, nor is it true. Rather I say that just as the Jews observe the day of the Sabbath, so these people observe the Lord’s Day." Eymerich, in the 16th century, explicitly rejected the rumor that they observed Saturday as false & claimed that they observed Sunday. Which I do not believe it's true either. As you show at min 40:10, Moneta of Cremona, a much earlier source (12th century) denies that they kept Sunday: "against this the heretic objects, namely, the Cathari and Waldenses, which is found in Galatians 4:10." Interestingly enough, they did not object Sunday using Exodus or Genesis verses as arguments against Sunday, rather Galatians 4:10: "…YE OBSERVE DAYS" – which shows they DID NOT OBSERVE ANY CALENDARISTIC DAY AS HOLY, because these were commanded by the Old Covenant, an OBSOLETE/REPLACED COVENANT (Hebrews 8:7; 10:9), further proving their faith was in line with the GOSPEL OF GRACE, obeying the NEW COVENANT commandments only, which are found in 1 John 3:23. As for your quotes regarding the Pasagini as Sabbath keepers, even if this is true, you wrongly CONFLATE them with the entire WALDENSE AND CATHAR movement. Cardinal Humbert of Romans, in his treatise Contra hereticos (c. 1274), explicitly states the Pasagini are found "especially in Lombardy." He writes they were few. Unlike the Waldensians, who had a vast, Europe-wide network of followers by the 13th century, the Pasagini are consistently described as a small group. Also, there is no record of large-scale campaigns or massacres targeting the Pasagini. The martyrs were not killed for JUDAIZING, they were hated and killed for the NAME of Christ (His true identity as literal SON OF GOD – they were NON-TRINITARIANS), and for their LIBERTY, just as Paul wrote and as Jesus predicted.

  4. @OriginalTrueOrFalse

    If Myles doesn't retract his statements publicly and/or delete the video where he made false statements against the Waldensians, just to try to prove SDA's wrong, then he will be sinning by spreading false information (lies) for the sake of money (YouTube monetization).

  5. @rossilett4284

    I don't know why we always harp on about the Waldensians, there are other peoples that stood, the Thomas Christians in India for example.

  8. @whitebird357

    Thank you for this recent presentation and challenging those who pretend to know history and the Bible, but do not. And besides the Great Controversy, why not recommend Truth Triumphant by BG Wilkinson that refers extensively to the content that you produced in this video?

  9. @pamtrogdon4109

    It’s not too complicated to go to the Piedmont Valley in Torre Pellice. My husband and I just returned from there last spring as I have been wanting to go for a long, long time. We went for our 35th wedding anniversary and the area there is so beautiful. If you go to YouTube and type in The church in the Wilderness Campbell SDA church, you will find us talking about our trip. We could recommend a Tour Guide and everything. The Lineage Journey talks about the same area and one of the places we went to, Mount Castelluzzo. Thank you for your content. God bless you both. 🙏 Praying for you and your Ministry, it is truly a blessing for the times we live in.

  11. @robman6583

    Thanks for sharing this ! Really found this fascinating.
    Hebrews(kjv)12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

    2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

  13. @earlemattis1405

    The Roman Catholic church shed more innocent blood more than any other institution on earth. The Waldences are victims of this fact. Its a shame that they turn away from their heritage and turn to papacy.

  14. @debt.1001

    You guys are amazing! I’m new to Jesus (came out of New Age) and channels like yours have been invaluable in my learning. I really am settled in the Truth. Sending all much love from the UK. 🙏💜

  17. @andreK560

    Knowing how much history has been hidden makes me want to learn Latin and read those manuscripts myself.

    Great work, gentlemen.

  19. @JamesCalvert-u3q

    Daniel and his companions refused the gentile Babylonian diet because it undoubtedly consisted of many biblically unclean meats, not because Daniel and his companions were vegetarians. To me, how anyone can believe that vegetarianism is a biblical doctrine is simply beyond comprehension. There is no scriptural support for vegetarianism. In fact, 1 Timothy 4:1-5 suggests that it may be a demonic doctrine. If someone wants to be a vegetarian, they have every right to do so. I personally will follow the dietary laws of the bible as found in Leviticus 11.

  20. @JamesCalvert-u3q

    I guess that Claude of Turin, @18:19, never read James 2:26: "faith without works is dead." I remember having heard that Luther hated the book of James. The great false church and all of her apostate daughters have always had a strong antinomian prejudice: "As is the mother, so is her daughter" (Ezekiel 16:44).

  21. @clg5830

    Happy sabbath from Poland. Please consider doing the documentary on the Waldenses. I would love join.

  22. @jamessimpson8026

    The books have the power to destroy the false gospel of the apostate Protestant church. We cannot inspire them to read the complete text of the Bible, but they might look at the information contained herein. Good luck.

  29. @shadaiperez

    I am shooting a documentary in may about the Sabbath with my good friend Dustin Pestlin. We are going to the waldensian valley and all over Europe.

  33. @hermes559

    Thank you for sharing. The Doomsday is near. The best preparation for difficult times is to live in the present moment, eliminating our psychological defects from instant by instant, so our Consciousness will manifest and guides us in the midst of the catastrophes. The key is in the book “Hercolubus or Red Planet” by V.M. Rabolu. You can read it in PDF format in several languages.

  34. @stylishlyinsanestylishlyin844

    The video of that women preaching she did not preach that through Faith in Christ that he can keep us from sinning. We make the choice and Jesus give us the strength to overcome that sinful nature. She did not preach that, not sure why you did not say anything about that

  41. @jakmelienne49

    Happy Sabbath and God bless your ministry in revealing and teaching truth. I am viewing after it was aired. I would like to ask if you would be coming to the state of Massachusetts?

  43. @CroseS-h2n

    There is so much to learn from the Waldensian experience. My family went to the Valdou Vallies last year when Gideon Rescue company did some training with volunteers there in Europe. So much was learned, and my children really enjoyed the experience. What you say about their modern church is unfortunately true.

  45. @Revelation14.4_EWFMG

    Q. You mentioned Claude of Turin and referenced him to Protestant Ideology !?
    So , is it that the Shroud of Turin came from the same Protestant people group ??
    The evidences of the Shroud seems very compelling to myself at this time !!

  47. @HonestInput

    If the sabbath is a sign, and the sun and moon were made for the signs , why the sabbath needs to come from Rome instead of sun and the moon ?

  49. @LidijaLesich

    Truly appreciate the work that goes into this for all of us to consume at our fingertips. Sharing far and wide! So many don't believe the Sabbath is the centre of the final battle of worship and this is such a great compilation of that which was tried to be exterminated.

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