In this episode, I sit down with food historian Zach Nowak (PhD) to dig into the real history behind iconic Italian dishes — and why so much of what we think we know is wrong. This is a conversation about culture, migration, nationalism, and the stories we tell ourselves about food.
We get into the salt wars in Umbria and why Umbrians still eat unsalted bread, the cultural symbolism of torta al testo, and how pizza evolved from street food to a national icon. We talk about the real story behind pizza Margherita, the messy (and possibly American) origins of carbonara, and the birth of Italian-American cuisine. Zach breaks down why “authentic” Italian food is mostly a myth, how bad wine used to be, and why culinary traditions — like food itself — are always evolving. It’s funny, surprising, and full of stories you probably haven’t heard before.
📚 Books mentioned in the episode:
Hungering for America – https://amzn.to/4oYOsLT
The History of Pizza (translated by Zach) – https://amzn.to/4pHmwxn
On Food and Cooking – https://amzn.to/48GiXl5
Truffle: A Global History by Zach Nowak – https://amzn.to/3KYPARE
Want to get in touch with Zach Nowak? You can reach him at znowak@fas.harvard.edu
About me:
I’m Anthony Calvanese — an American living in Italy since 2022. I’ve traveled across all 20 regions and share honest insights about Italian culture, travel, and food — without the fluff.
Disclaimer: This description contains affiliate links. If you purchase through them, I may earn a small commission — at no extra cost to you. Thanks for supporting independent Italy content.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Podcast Format
01:55 Journey to Italy: Experiences in Bolzano and Vienna
07:52 Italian Food Culture: Myths and Realities
10:43 The Debate on Unsalted Bread
11:12 The Taste of Unsalted Bread
13:07 Culinary Traditions of Umbria
14:37 The Salt Tax and Its Historical Context
16:59 The Salt War: A Local Rebellion
19:23 Cultural Significance of Unsalted Bread
21:21 The Evolution of Culinary Narratives
22:51 Torta al Testo: A Unique Umbrian Bread
26:19 The Evolution of Torta al Testo
30:55 Cultural Significance of Torta al Testo
33:32 Pizza: From Poverty to Popularity
41:24 The Origins of Pizza Margherita
43:31 The Myth of the Royal Pizza
45:04 The Evolution of Pizza in America
47:50 Cultural Exchange and Pizza’s Journey
53:00 Regional Variations of Italian Cuisine
56:02 Culinary Traditions and Historical Context
59:03 The Evolution of Carbonara
01:01:52 American Influence on Italian Cuisine
01:04:56 The Changing Nature of Food Traditions
01:06:38 Culinary Nationalism and Historical Narratives
01:11:04 The Importance of Nixtamalization
01:14:03 Pellagra and Its Historical Context
01:17:50 The Mediterranean Diet: Myth vs. Reality
01:22:23 Social Aspects of Diet and Lifestyle
01:27:00 Culinary Indulgences and Morning Rituals
01:29:40 The People’s History of Wine
01:32:34 Upcoming Projects and Future Endeavors
01:36:08 Cultural Perceptions of Food
#ItalianFood #PizzaHistory #ItalyTravel #AnthonyInItaly #FoodCulture #Carbonara #FoodMyths #ZachNowak
1 Comment
Memo to Wälschland (Italia): Forget the Thanksgiving meal. Order a slab of barbecued pork ribs, baked beans, cole slaw, mac and cheese, and a slice of apple pie. With vanilla ice cream.