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Drinking Windows: Good or Bad?
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I use this wine key: Forge de Laguiole Ebony
I have used this glass in this Video: Nude Stem Zero Powerful Red Wine
I have tasted the following wines in this Video:
2021 Schloss Johannisberg Gelblack Riesling Trocken, Rheingau, Germany
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/schloss+johannisberg+gelblack+riesling+trocken+rheingau+germany/2021 ?referring_site=KSB
2014 Domaine Frederic Mochel Gewurztraminer, Alsace, France
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/dom+frederick+mochel+gewurz+alsace+france/2014 ?referring_site=KSB
2011 Bodegas Valdemar ‘Conde de Valdemar’ Crianza, Rioja DOCa, Spain
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/valdemar+conde+de+crianza+doca+rioja+spain/2011 ?referring_site=KSB
2017 Inama Carmenere Piu Veneto Rosso IGT, Italy
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/inama+carmenere+piu+rosso+igp+veneto+italy/2017 ?referring_site=KSB
2015 Bodega Garzon Estate ‘Balasto’, Maldonado, Uruguay
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/garzon+estate+balasto+maldonado+uruguay/2015 ?referring_site=KSB
2013 Domaine de la Tourade Gigondas Cuvee Font de Aieux, Rhone, France
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/dom+de+la+tourade+cuvee+font+aieux+gigonda+rhone+france/2013 ?referring_site=KSB
2000 Chateau du Tertre, Margaux, France
https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/du+tertre+margaux+medoc+bordeaux+france/2000 ?referring_site=KSB
The 100 Point Scoring System (from www.robertparker.com):
96-100: An extraordinary wine of profound and complex character displaying all the attributes expected of a classic wine of its variety. Wines of this caliber are worth a special effort to find, purchase and consume.
90 – 95: An outstanding wine of exceptional complexity and character. In short, these are terrific wines.
80 – 89: A barely above average to very good wine displaying various degrees of finesse and flavor as well as character with no noticeable flaws.
70 – 79: An average wine with little distinction except that it is soundly made. In essence, a straightforward, innocuous wine.
60 – 69: A below-average wine containing noticeable deficiencies, such as excessive acidity and/or tannin, an absence of flavor or possibly dirty aromas or flavors.
50 – 59: A wine deemed to be unacceptable.
Wine is weird: Most beverages either do not go bad over time like spirits or have a best before date like apple juice. Wine, however, hast a best after and AND best before Date.
The periods between these dates are called drinking windows and they are a big mystery to many of you. Most wine publications show drinking windows next to their scores and tasting notes. While the scores are a controversial topic drinking windows are usually just accepted, even though I think they have significant shortcomings and estimates vary a lot
So let’s find out whether drinking windows are useful or useless by putting them to the test by tasting some old wines from my collection!
While ratings and tasting notes are explained on the websites of wine publications like Robert Parker, Vinous, Wine Spectator and Jancis Robinson, it is far more difficult to find out how these publications determine the drinking windows of the wines they rate.
Even the resourceful Oxford Companion does not have an entry discussing the topic of Drinking windows and I had to dig deep into the Wine Spectator Help pages to find this: Based on a taster’s years of experience with this type of wine, the drinking window suggests when the wine is likely to be at its best. It typically covers a range of years or will state “drink now.” Adjust for your preference if you know you like your wines on the younger or older side—aged wines are an acquired taste—or if your personal experience with the producer or vineyard in question differs.
I actually believe that drinking windows play a very important role when it comes to enjoying your wine. The best wine in the world will not bring you joy if it is past its drinking window, slowly turning into vinegar. They only play a role for a small segment of the worldwide production.
I would say the vast majority of wines is not made for aging but should be consumed within the first two years after bottling. While wine does not go bad like fish, I have tasted many wines that were great and had lost their spark after I opened them and wines that could have been worldclass but were too young to truly show how delicious they are. To taste great wines when they are at their peak we need accurate drinking windows.
30 Comments
if a riesling isn't old enough to drink in the United States it's too young.
When the lord closes the door, he opens a little drinkin' window … 😎
Very, very well done segment. I’ve been waiting for someone like yourself to dive into this topic, and you did it very well. I have thought long pondering about drinking windows, and I also believe these critics, wine writers are being conservative in order to cover themselves. But I also believe that may be because they realize optimal storage conditions may not be followed by many retracting what could be a much longer window. Well done!
Surprised by your hostility to Gewurztraminer.
It always surprises me how well burgundy ages, even from producers that don’t have a big reputation. I’ve even had great burgundy from English and Irish companies that have sourced the wine and sometimes even bottled it in their home country.
As a professional restaurant sommelier, I pay no attention to the opinions of Robert Parker or his associates. While I agree that drinking windows are short and on the conservative side, in the case of the Du Tertre, following the [drinking window] guidelines is actually doing a disservice to the customer/drinker. Wine is so subjective and I hate when people don't follow the advice of professionals or even their own palate to make informed decisions. I often get guests who despite my advice select wines based on ratings, producers, and the advice of complete strangers (like Robert Parker and other 'critics').
You may have done this, but I don't recall. MYBE SO video on how to make a home wine cellar, or the best of the various ways to store wine, based on expense. Everything from a wood rack in a dark room to renting storage in a high end facility (somewhat common in the US).
I am watching your video while sipping on a Dubourdieu Liaison 2019 Sauternes after work. that has a drinking window of 2023.
It’s amazing …
I guess , we are not aging , we just fermenting to greatness. 😊
Thank you for what you do. As a sommelier in California , you have been always my biggest inspiration.
I’m sixty. If a wine needs ten more years, I don’t want it.
Rather drink them young then when they're tired. I mean, people who drink old wines want less of the bad things (tannins, concentration) and more of the good things (smoothness, autumnal flavors like mushroom n leather). I can understand the former but not the latter – tertiary notes don't excite me. I rather have a wine that wears its character on its sleeve… like colorful youth whose supposedly "flaws" are exactly what makes them interesting.
What do you do with all the wine from the bottles that you open in these videos? Do you and Leon get legless every Sunday evening?
What makes it even more complicated is that some wines turn out to improve much more than expected over time. I've had a few bottles recommended to me in Michelin-starred restaurants which the big critics had given low scores (mid 80s) and no aging potential, but which many years past their "drinking window" were actually incredible (mid 90s for both me and the somm).
Had both ch du tertre 2001 and 2004 this summer. Both elegant and floral, especially the 2001. Bdx is such good value…. They just need sooo much time! 😅
I agree that drinking windows estimated are too short. A reason is that people today don't cellar their wines anymore and are in a mood of fast consuming. I also must admit that if I did not have the chance to drink well aged wines (Bordeaux of 30 years or more for instance), I would not have realized how beautiful a wine can be when aged. I always have a look at the drinking window of a wine I want to buy on an auction. By my experience, I think that the wines that RP himself rated are well estimated in terms of quality and drinking window.
You can age any Rioja forever. You can age any Spanish Carignan until after the end of the universe.
There's no such thing as a great old wine only a great old bottle as the saying goes for wines beyond a certain age. I had a 1953 McLaren Vale Shiraz about 10 years ago that was fresh as a daisy still showing some primary fruit. McLaren typically being low acid soft wines (as this was) are not what's normally considered age worthy but this 60-ish year old bottle defied everything it should have been. If I'd reviewed it in 1954 I probably would have said drink up!
I didn’t know anyone made Carmenere anymore outside of Chile! Super interesting!
Also never had a bad wine from Garzon. They are doing some really amazing stuff over there!
Six months ago, my friends and I opened and drank a bottle of 1947 Cheval Blanc. The level was down to low shoulder and most people expected it to be vinegar. Nope! It was exquisite. It does have a bit of a Port taste to it. The only person there who had tried it before said that it was even better than 40 years ago. I have found that drinking windows are WAY off. Most good wines last much longer than the windows.
Not Drinking wines before the window opens is the most important. "This 2020 Lafite is terrible"
When I worked at Bern's we had many Rieslings that were well over 25-30 years old and most were good to very good. Many aged very well if stored properly.
The drinking window is like a horoscope: it can be accurate, but it might not be.
Have you ever rated wines in the 50-59 range? Would you have a tasting of some of the lowest rated wines around? 🙂
Drinking windows by critics are just garbage. Trust your own experience and read through the latest cellar tracker entries. For my palate all drinking windows (for structured wines meant for the cellar) are way too conservative. If you open the bottles at the early end of window, chances are they’ll still be closed and hard, and often you can go decades past the ending date.
My thought about drinking windows: I don’t have the cellar or budget to age wines to their optimal drinking window !?! First world problem, I know… 😂
The provenance of older wine is critical. If it’s not stored properly, it’s suspect.
Drink them before you reach your 'expiration' date!
great video; maybe do one where you try some wines before the critics' window has opened? I generally think that is worth paying attention to; the end date is much more subjective and also subjective to things like how well you've stored the wine and bottle variation
Most 'good' wine can last quite a long time in the drinking window. I wasn't at all surprised about the Rioja because Tempranillo is suited to ageing without falling off a cliff. The wine might change a bit but it has a long window rather like Sangiovese. Brunello needs age to hit its best and wine made with Sagrantino needs a lot of time but most modern wine doesn't need to be aged forever any more. What's interesting is that some wine might take a few years to peak but then stays at that quality window for a number of years without deteriorating. I just opened a 2010 Marques de Murrieta Reserva and it's drinking perfectly well and could continue to age for another few years in good conditions. I have to admit though that I'm becoming nervous about my older stuff and the time has come to start opening and enjoying them.
You buy a great vintage and sit on it whilst the years roll by. You look at those bottles and they become like friends. It's hard to think of the right occasion to open them and cast them to one side, never to be seen again. The thing is most wine enthusiasts are adding to their collection all the time and stuff's coming in faster than it's going out. At my age it's pointless ageing any new wine for 20 years or more and I need to start enjoying my stash which, after all, I've paid for all those years ago. I watch another interesting wine channel and the host recently opened an old (80's) and premium French wine only to discover that it had peaked and was past it's best. This guy has a massive amount of expensive vintage wine and he's realised he better start drinking it right now before it's too late. By that I mean 'too late' for the wine but also his own mortality. He doesn't need to buy another bottle of wine ever.
Anyway, a great episode Konstantin and a very interesting topic. Do we even need 'so called' experts to tell us when we should drink our wine these days? It's so old school and pretty patronising. Joe Public buys supermarket releases for instant opening but those of us that are geeky enough to watch wine reviews on YouTube or buy wine magazines should have enough know-how to make our own minds up. I don't need Robert Parker or others to tell me when to open my own wine. Besides, a drinking window of 3 years is ridiculous. What sort of quality wine goes downhill after that? I completely agree with your conclusion. Cheers. WT
Funny, a few wines were given short drink windows that were “wrong” in your estimation—i.e. they had more life in them. Goes against the general guidance, often given, that a witheringly small % of wines are ageable. Very interesting!
In the old days there was no such thing as drinking windows, especially with reds.
Would it be because of high competition between wine producers, additives such as chemicals or sugar is added to be more appealing which could shorten the bottle life.