The Angelo Gaja Interview with Marvin R. Shanken

In this exclusive full-length interview, Wine Spectator editor and publisher Marvin R. Shanken reminisces with Italian wine icon Angelo Gaja over their decades-long friendship and the evolution of the Gaja brand, the reputation of Barbaresco, Gaja’s “secret” Cabernet vines and their early encounters with Robert Mondavi. Read the full interview in the April 30, 2024, issue of Wine Spectator: https://www.winespectator.com/issues/angelo-gaja-champion-of-italian-wine-2024-04-30

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[Music] Angelo it’s so great to see you we is it pretty that’s for me we go back long way yes absolutely as they say and golf we’re both on the back nine do you recall when we first met I remember that was uh February 1980 and uh at the time I remember that two months earlier I received a Tex from Italian trade Commerce advising that I had to receive a visit by a guy no more specified from New York ER that not exactly they they didn’t say me that it was a a white white writer or someone special interested of wine but just someone from New York that like to visit GAA Winery and and in the morning and in the early late in the early afternoon to visit a Cooperative in Clos in s sto uh the uh it happened that the day he arrived during the night we had a snow and uh the from the hotel they called me and told me that that the guest was unable to move because of the too much snow so I went to pick him and we we arrived in barbaresco around 10:00 in the in the morning and we started talking and I realized immediately because of the questions that he was asking that he was someone interested in wine and having curiosity and uh we started talking we went in the sell and they remember that he was not surprised but he uh he he could see that we had some stainless steel Ts that at the moment in Italy were the beginning and so on and he had the impression that that Gia Winery was in a trend to more equipped and looking to to be more modern and we talk together and so on and after it was it arrived the time of lunch time and uh I asked him if he lik to stay there with me and he told me that he was not interested to go to The Cooperative I to call the cooperative and telling that it was not and we had lunch together H after lunch I I accompany him in a where he had to stay for the uh for for the night another hotel ER the uh stop at this point did you know who I was by then or what I was doing there I had no idea no sorry I I very sorry I had no idea at all but I had the I had absolutely I reached the the impression I yet absolutely the that you were someone that were interested in going deep in trying to understand what was happening in the field of Italian wise okay so I remember that we ended up having dinner yes and you drove me but to orisha about an hour away or something not an hour was less it was the middle of the night yes yes right it’s true there were no lights on the road there were no lines on the road you were driving 150 miles hour and I was scared to death I really thought I was going to die and I begged you to slow down and you wouldn’t slow down and then we had dinner at this great small small Countryside Restaurant and what happened at the restaurant happened that when we arrived there H the uh the owner of the restaurant came to the table offering and telling what we had to eat and so on and but he asked the the responsible the owner of the restaurant can I have a wi list and the owner said I am the the the the Wiest he was very surprised I was a little bit embarrassed because the question and he was right to be surprised but at the end the owner of the restaurant introduced some of the wies matching the the the food that we had during the the meal he get up two three two times at least H telling that he had to go to the to the to the bathroom but the reason was to have a look to the other five or six tables that were eating exactly the same food that we had during the our dinner but with the different wise so the time when the owner of the restaurant I came back again asking if he liked the food and the wines and so on and he said but sorry why you Choose You said us that you choose the best wies to match the food but you gave to the other guest the same exactly different why why you change and immediately the the owner of the restaurant told me what kind of guest you me here being surprised but the question was very excellent yeah so um and we started there and yes and and we started to become a little bit friend there and I I uh I I understood immediately that the guy I had in front was not nobody you know was someone that in the field of wine could do something special and in effect they did I mean those are very early days but um I remember that after visiting you I walked away feeling you were something special and of course in those days Italian Wes were nothing nothing nothing I mean um I don’t even know why I went to Italy I mean they didn’t have any you know it was really I was interested in higher quality ones can I tell you yes uh in the 198 79 end of 79 November I believe I was here and at the time I met bonel sagerman that was a broker working for wine and so on and H we we worked together for a short time and they introduced me to Sher Leeman and I remember that I entered the the the shop I could see that the Bots the prestigious B were Clos you know there and so on and and er he asked me H to to get up on the stairs outside and we went to the first floor there was a small room there full of bottles samples books and so on and the samaron was there cated and uh he uh made a free C for me I se there he opened the bottle of champagne I believe for for one more than me one he I had the the uh the not not the impression I couldn’t understand that he knew my name but SE told me this Market is not is not ready for for you is not ready for Italian wise so uh and nobody and barbaresco baresco was totally under more than an underdog it was nothing it nothing not nothing absolutely so it it told me but I remember always but if you will spend the time in and energy in this country is possible that in future you will be successful I remember always that the uh it was the time that the uh uh definition of Italian wi was were cheap and cheerful was not exactly what bottles it was keti yes in the Italian in the italianas the B over yes and that’s about the time the boa started so was the time was a difficult time H we were lucky because the the country in the the producers of of Italian wise in in the meantime did a incredible effort to renovate and you when you went to ccmar at Sher weeman and you were trying to sell barbaresco do you recall about how much it was going to retail for in those years I believe that uh uh in in 80s the retail price for a bottle of G barbaresco was around 25 or $30 maximum when the Italian ones probably were three or $4 two $3 so what did he say when you said you know I want you to buy five cases of my wine and we’re going to retail for 25 30 I believe I believe that the work that I did at the time in in 80s I started uh with the I I worked at the time with theil Emon and he helped me to understand the market and so on and they remember that I asked him to give me the chance of having a contact with sales people of Distributors and they’re going to visit restaurants and they going even at lunchtime to visit the three restaurants one at 11:00 the second one at 1:00 were you mainly going to Italian restaurants uh at the time principally yes yes absolutely PR the Italian restaurant did the Fantastic work to help the the the knowledge so why um so this is around 7980 why were you focusing on New York or the United States so early when America was not ready for expensive highquality Italian Wares look it was I was lucky I uh I believe that I had no idea at the time it was just we did just the choice uh to uh to invest in two countries at the time the United States principally and the country speaking a German language Germany German Switzerland and Austria H but was United States that I had the impression that it could possible uh to to build and to create some and even even at the time I remember that we started with for example felia or some restaurants that were interested to have H behind the uh the wies that were from from Italy that were selling to have something being upgrade and the my function was to visit this restaurant to introduce myself to explain who I was and to try to to to to to to create a kind a kind of friendship that was so how much time were you spending in the United States a lot of time I believe that often I was spending three weeks all together but I came here at least two or three times a year Well I correct me but I seem to recall at one point probably in the early 80s you actually moved to San Francisco and if my memory serves me right I said well why are you moving to San Francisco and you said cuz I want to learn to speak English yes it is I never learned English but I went there in San Francisco in 85 and we moved in February all the family H my wife with G and Rosana my two daughters that that at the time were six and four years old old yes in for a month and I went to school and I tried to learn English and never successful is always a disaster and so on but was a good experience and even during that time I had the chance of visiting different wineries to create contact principally with mavi with m i I was just you just got a little bit ahead of me I was going to say and while you were there you met and became friends with a guy that probably changed your life yeah absolutely I believe that is I is the guy that has not only changed my life I believe that in all the wineries that now H are selling all over the world more than 10 or 15 million bottles they had a maestro and the Maestro was Rober M Ro M was an incredible man do you remember when you first I met first time in 74 my first trip to to California was in 74 and I remember that at that time you went to the winery or I went to the winery and zel Malong was at the the so so you now you met you met in 74 okay so Robert mandavi in 74 was not Robert mandavi 9s he was he was a Maverick he he was thrown out of his own family he was at a yes what but he he uh he was a man that uh had in mind that it could be possible H even to produce uh um super quality wise in volume in in our mind in the 70s not only mine but even in for many French producers we had the idea that the only chance for producing high quality wine was limited to a specific Vineyard and the quantity of specific Vineyard that’s all in Robert starting thinking that if could be possible even producing quality wise high quality wise in volume how to do H surely having suppliers of grapes that could be followed by their people telling them how to make better quality grapes and wanted to select was it was incred and even trying in in in a seller a different method and it was a researcher it was elaborator incredible so obviously uh there was the whole issue of innovation and wine making not only sorry sorry not only innovation in he was the first to to write an advertisement drink by moderation I never heard Italian white producers to to to to ask people drink by moderation drink as much as possible that we make money you know not Dr by moderation and even he started inviting chefs from Europe to to create even the the idea that the wine has to be messed with food okay I was just going to list the number of things that he was uh focused on but now that we’re looking back and this is um 40 50 years ago what are the one or two or three things that you learned from him that may have had an impact on you building your business to have a first to have a courage to be available to think different that was already the message that my my father gave me but I learned I I I believe I learned from him this message be able to think different don’t be H limited only to your tradition but be able to to look and to see outside and to learn absolutely important and even even in the way that he I believe that was a man that had a great respect of wine and all this attitude in saying drink my moderation in in helping consumers to understand that the best way to drink wine is with food matching Wine and Food indispensable so absolutely Visionary a man that for me was more than than a so how did it happen that in 1985 on the cover of the wi spectator there’s a picture of you and Robert mandavi yes but you you wait wait 24 23 and was written 38 years ago it was written the meeting of the minds I thank you very much but the mind was only him he was the mind absolutely great guy absolutely you know but even I sorry but even Margaret he had the the wife was absolutely unique always protecting him and always close to him and helping him and giving yes ABS a fantastic couple I don’t mean to shame you but you and he are very much alike and I was very close to Robert mandavi going back to the very beginning and you and he shared a personality of vision a drive a curiosity that was so powerful that you each were able to achieve in your respective countries something that very few people do in a lifetime and the fact that you found each other was a blessing far greater than you probably realized at the time is because I believe that is because of his suggestion and the vision and so one that I did the steps in early 90s expanding GA our business to Tason to bulgary and the brino and but is is an energy he gave me energy incredible right so I I’m goingon to go back to the early days but before I do that um mandavi Mutan Opus One um there are a number of joint ventures in Napa with foreign owners um have you ever thought about doing something in Napa Valley or in California I had the main invitations and uh I believe that U uh sometime I had not courage enough and uh I didn’t do and I believe that I did a mistake take in the life you know uh is important even to to recognize it to understand that when you do a mistake I did it in in not in refusing not going deep in trying to do steps that at the time were perfectly available but it’s because of that that I started the two operation in taskan and so on and expanding and so on and I would like to leave the message to children to be open to be prepared eventually in the future what I didn’t do they have to be able to to do I have the lucky of having three children in the winery all three all working get we’re gonna get to it so you read about Pier anori buying Stags huge huge huge big big I mean Super I believe I I I I knew waren baski for a long time and I had with him a very deep contact and so on and I I had a great admiration of him of his daughter and so on and I uh I didn’t know that he was available to sell he he he was a man so rich of humor of sense of humor ftic and H when I asked him about his future he was telling me that he was having a confident is he in his daughter and so on and after when I knew that pi b I did it fantastic so what was your reaction when you when you heard the news no I I believe that this is something good for Italy did you ever absolutely did you ever pick up the phone and call P no I called him yes absolutely because what did you say yes this is fantastic step that you did it and but he he did Pi the vision of of of Anor is fantastic and even when they bman is another you know the Italian the best the most important white producers for white wines in in in Italy ER shapo absolutely so in preparing for this interview I’m reading and I realized something that I never knew your father turned Winery over to you to run when you were 21 okay can that’s what my notes say can you repeat sorry can you repeat this in N you were born in 1940 40 yes in 1961 you took over the winery that’s what my research says uh 21 what the hell do you know when you’re 21 to take over a winery that’s in the fourth generation exactly exactly let let me say in the 21 my father asked me to work in The Vineyards for almost four years I worked by Hands In The Vineyards oh at 21 you worked in the vineyard yes I the research says you took over the Wier not exactly they say that but my my father didn’t give me the chance immediately to to to to get in the winery but he asked me to work in The Vineyards and they believe that it was a very important step H to know to understand what’s happening there with the vineard workers and even to understand another aspect that is important for people agriculture working in agriculture field so uh people have they know about and they know that their richness is their soil but all what they do depend by weather so you know is not for uh people like sorry like you like all the people that is working in offices and so on what you do you know exactly what you do and the success that deres for what all right so your your father was still running the winery in 61 he slow yes he he runed the winery practically till 7 68 6768 and after I joined there at that time and in a short time I looked for a what anist and that joined the Wier in the 70s and we we did together with the theologist but I looked more to the market despite I was investigating and because I had the knowledge in what was happening in The Vineyards was very important that because when I am talking when always when I was talking with my vinion manager that knows more than me but I know exactly what I’m talking about so in the 60s yes when you’re working in The Vineyards yes tell me about the guy of Winery then not now the GU the Gia Winer at that time was producing exclusively barbaresco a small amount of bottles and H this was the dream of my father H he let me let me say even about my father my father joined the winery in 35 he was 27 years old and immediately had in mind to produce a wine that had to be able to compete barbaresco to compete to Baro impossible at that time absolutely impossible because barbaresco had no reputation like today absolutely and the only one that had the reputation was Baro but what did my father H at that time there were three two three vages out of 10 that the grapes were perfectly ripe all the other vages were medium or very low Quant quality so what he did did he excluded the 78 other vages selling the wine in bulk at potato prices and the keeping exclusively the two three that were the best sorry and he was used using this wi of this two three vages out of 10 to create his that he was called V Reserve not old Reserve not having the H the Vintage on the bottle but it was successful because this wines was of course comparing the other your father was ahead of his time no yes was incredible I I was blessed I I had a a father that was not only my estro but was a man that was able to fix on the already in the market the the brand gu and we are lucky because is is a short name with the DJ I remember if you of course you remember what am I talking about the label on the bottle was like the the headlights you know glaring I mean there’s 50 bottles of wine on a shelf and there’s one way yeah it was like the it was like the circus was down he was he had that the is not my my idea was his idea because in 37 he had a label that was a label H with the color yellow that I remember that sh maker sh maker that was a selector French French Scher selecting grapes and wine he came to visit the winery in 66 and as he he joined the winery was the early afternoon he as he told me that he tasted barbaresco 61 and he was so impressed that he he asked me how many Botts you have sorry how many Botts you have are not all for you just a minute and even my English was poor I could I didn’t understand him well absolutely and after he asked me that he liked to put on on the label that on the butters that he liked to buy he strip with the selection I do I do I didn’t understand I believed that he had to put this on on my front label and so on and uh I I did a mistake in my life many I did a mistake and I became aggressive with him and at the time he told me that the yellow label at the time that was the label of my father was a label good for olive oil oh my God so I lost the opportunity opportunity but coming back to my father so the he had the idea of having this in 37 is a label of barbaresco with the guy written in red character big and what was his meaning the the the idea to tell consumers you believe that barbaresco is an underdog but this is the barbaresco GU is a different one and he did it so I had the chance of having a maestro that gave me a big help and when I I started in the winery he pretended it was right to have me working first in the in The Vineyards because the land is is our most important Heritage that we have and after introducing slowly in the in the winery and in the market okay so it’s the late 60s um and you’re now beginning to take over he your father is gradually giving you more and more responsibility what were the priorities and the changes you made in the beginning of your tenure to move the guy in a newer Direction uh first uh the to having a collaborator in in the seller that was prepared that was able to work there for 45 years working very well for making the a GU wi beside behind me first second to renovate as much as possible quickly the winery and not having staying with the mind that the big old Cask were the best in making wine and so on and reducing even the time aging and not having wise staying there for seven eight or 10 years and the shorter and so on recuperating Clarity to the wise in a way not having a wise that sometime had a little smell that was not proper and so on but even because at the time we had no Vineyards in bar district and because we we stopped buying grapes because we liked to have the the control our grapes over our work in The Vineyards so owning The Vineyards that was a little bit unusual at the time owning The Vineyards working in The Vineyards hard to create quality grapes that could be transformed in a in a high quality wine H the and because at the time we didn’t own Vineyards in the bolo area I started getting idea that it could be useful to introduce in barbaresco some H International grae variety that happened everywhere in the world everywhere we’re introducing but in barbaresco seemed to be outrageous to introduce shardon and cabern but even in small qu small quantity hoping to be able in producing a high quality Chardon high quality CERN ofo and introducing in the word in in in to consumers not Italian that had more knowledge about Chardon more knowledge about the cabern than neolo and trying to reach and to open doors to to this consumers to buy barbaresco what years was this H we planted our first Vineyard CERN in 78 and the first Vineyard of Chardon in 79 well all right so if my memory serves me right and you could correct me if I’m wrong when I went there to visit you in 0 80 you sorry I’m going I’m going to accepting even though in my mind it’s okay okay I remember perfectly in J in February 80 okay I probably got it wrong but my memory says you told me that you had hidden away Cabernet Vines yes exactly but that you couldn’t discuss it and I wasn’t allowed to write about it and because you were breaking the law if you ever point to Cabernet and was our secret no but but you’re right you’re right but this was incredible because you know when I visited California in 74 uh the interest for cabern was already extended in in you in in Napa and so on was growing and so on and in in even in in other countries there there were great GR producers start introduce CERN because you know you we know perfectly and so on so but I was I had hesitation I didn’t know what could happen there and even I had a little bit of contrast with my father but my father was super B I never had to fight to him but he tried to of course when he had a different idea from mine he was used to telling me and and and and but not fighting but maybe repeat telling me that I could could do a mistake introducing gab in barbaresco area in barbaresco Village when we had already the king of variety there that was considered the why to do that so is is only when he knew that finally I planted the C and that I didn’t say so you did plant it in 78 78 you never told me that you told me you had the vines hidden in the barn or the warehouse in February 78 we planted the CERN of my father when he knew that he did it said dagi that from a French word what a shame what a pity for having planted but stopped there and never fighted and I all respect this I had a great respect of this man that was able even to understand that the new generation joining the winery you have to give them the right to go on with their own project is not possible to have a children entering and the joining the the the the property the winery or the family business and pretending that they have to do exactly what the father or grandfather did it I know tradition versus Innovation yes absolutely so before we talk about the future you’re talking about production and I as a um as a marketing person could never understand how you ended up today selling a bottle of Italian wine for 600 $800,000 a bottle and it like crept up on me over the years you were always way more expensive than anybody else when did this was a pricing strategy part of your plan was it just your yields or lower cost you more therefore you needed to charge a higher price in order to stay in what what was behind the aggressive pricing for your wines 30 years ago 20 years ago today well uh the uh of course is the consquence from a side of the reputation that the winery was able to achieve uh continuously in the market first is question of H A availability of a quantity and even not to accept despite the demand was growing to uh extend and to uh produce more quantity but even to stress the quantity and to be more severe and to try in what we do to make something absolutely originally unique and probably the consumers our consumers uh the in in some way they accept it and they understood the message didn’t you ever have price resistance where you you raised your price and there was of course there is a price resistance there is a price resistant but there are even other part not Partners people working with us that have respect and they believe that what we are doing is done in a good in a good way and in good steps sorry what what did happen for French wines that are able that had the you know that achieve the prices high prices and so on I believe that is the consequence of a philosophy of an attitude that is recognized in the market and that the consumers have a confidence kind of sort of consumers a a certain number of consumers not all are available to accept and to join and happy to continue buying this wise okay what role what impact did the prices charged by romanti by first growths from Bordeaux and so forth were you wanting to was that a factor in your pricing I no no I I I I cannot compete with with this moner wise like Roman and so on that are incredible for what they did is it true that is is a a consequence of ER attitude that we have staying in the market H giving messages that are understood by consumers H having a great respect at dignity respecting the Dignity of wines what does it mean for us to respect the dignity wise H single Vineyards we don’t bottle every year we refuse the bottling the single Vineyards and losing completely even the money and so on in villages that we consider that the quality was not there and this attitude is is respected and is accepted and we Reed the compliment for doing that so there is many many steps that help and consolidate the reputation of the winery and the availability of consumers to be and to to to to accept but uh I don’t believe that we have we have to pretend and to say that we are producing the best wines in the world I believe that what we have to be able is to make wines that is possible to recognize where they are coming from so from barbaresco fromo from monachino from bulgary next from Etna through the expression of the great variety and if is possible with an expression of style of our wies that has to be that the consumers can recognize I believe that this is important is there is and after not to pretend to be pleased to everybody we know that we have consumers that are not our friends and we have a great respect of them and we have to be even able to listen what they say and so on and we take a care more to the of course consumers that are closer to us the step that we did especially in the last 10 years is because of the consequence of climate change is not to run after opulence not to make big wies H we are facilit in that because neolo makes I don’t I don’t say slim wines but let me maybe elegant wines not rich of body and so on and we follow and we believe that for barbaresco especially this attitude of making wise less Rich of body but having the composant in in in perfect in very good Harmony and staying H not big not but a little bit slim we believe in our future it happens often that there are Judges that probably uh don’t accept or they would like to see even our wi more more bigger Barco has a character and a taste different different from bar I believe that especially in the last century it happened probably even us even as we do that the reference was Baro and we tried to make barbaresco more similar to Baro maybe with even with bars stressing the quantity trying during the fermentation to extract as much as possible and so on we don’t do more now and we and we believe that in this meaning in our opinion maybe that we are wrong baresco can be one of the most classic wine from Italy it it certainly can it does it is I mean we believe we believe in that when you taste it no we we when you taste it you know what it is because it’s distinctive um in totality all the all the brands all the you what is the approximate production what quantity of of the Gaia Winery it’s closed in in barbaresco for for for barbaresco barolo and the other ones that we produced there in monino and in bulgary we are closing between 900 and 950,000 Bottles a little less than 1 million bottle so how many cases that say um cases Cas oh Sor 80,000 90,000 yes 80,000 cases do you see expanding outside of the areas that you’re already in I would like I I asked to me to my children to stay with the eyes open at the here and to be understand and to see if in the future there will be availability for but for small operation not a big operation that a maximum can produce 150 200,000 eventually and slowly step by step but something unique and always in the in the in the in the character in the category of what I say elegant wise sorry I am very I am embarrassed to talk about elegant today h everybody are producing elegant wise you know if you ask people and even for sometime for wi that in our opinion are big and so on and that the produc producers are talking about Elegance so there are even in consumers the perception of Elegance is is is different how you’re 83 yes I am I am sorry I am 83 I am CL very close 84 I know that eternity sorry doesn’t doesn’t exist I wasn’t going there I don’t want to know how long no sorry and I am approaching I am slowly approaching but I am not in a hurry right I have a lot of patience so how active yes are you still in the business full full I am I am in I am in good health yeah I am I am I work almost 10 hours a day I I and without work I would become crazy all right so you have three children in the business I am very lucky so describe to me the role of each one of them yes because obviously it’s complicated no well H Gaya Gaya ER did a fantastic work in the market she is very good and she was able to travel in a different markets but especially in United States and introducing and promoting our wies and so on with importers very very good recently ER she’s becoming a little bit tired of having all the this because we we have no helpers sorry we are our guy and now joani are the only one being in the market promoting our wies in the market International Market no so why that why they are facilitated to do that because they their their name is GA they Gia written here and when they are and we’re proposing they are the owner of the winery and sorry and more Rosana that is taking care of the inter of the Gaia distribution and takes care of the domestic Market but I asked them you have your uh work in a specific area but you have to work hard to try to know as much as possible of other sectors so you have to know about viic culture you have to know about the why making process you have to know because if you like to be artisan and I believe that they have artisanal people you have to know as much as possible 360° not be not becoming expert everywhere you will be expert in your field so so when they were growing up yes when they were teenagers when they went to college did you know did they know that they wanted to go into the one business was it always assumed or was it something that just happened it happened with the guia was the first that initial had no idea to to to come to the winery but after a stage that she had in United States and she worked in initially she worked for Prada the fashion company and so on but after some time she couldn’t stay there because she had no a license to stay and she had to look for another work and a friend of mine pushed her to to end to to go in a wine shop and she started a wine shop of course being the name Gaya Gaya was Inu I got to ask you why did you call her Gia why why why he’s a good name sorry it’s a beautiful name I mean not a but is is there a name that guia like some some of my friend that told me you called the GU because is the first of your children and you were not able you were not sure to to have other children and did way not to lose G name you gave her the name g no sorry but she had a big impact she she at the end she decided to work for for the Winer and when she did this Choice the other two rosan and Joan were were able to follow but let me say something it’s something that I say often uh for the uh agriculture for the artisanal wineries we had we have in pedmont a large number of artisanal wineries producing 20 30 50 ,000 BS small but working very well and very hard they and they represent a very important Heritage is quite important to to teach them how to prepare the the transfer of the of of the company from fathers to children they have to to to understand the culture of transferring the the the the property absolutely it belongs not to be available easily in because at the moment that they don’t know what can happen and how to split the the the company among the children and and to be obliged to sell this is a big mistake they have to be to be prepared to prepare the the the transition absolutely and is a culture that has to enter in the family and I always spoke with my children and so on you have to to be prepared and every two three years we we we have written uh the conditions that that they have to respect and we review and so on and we talk together and I transferred already the property to the to the children so quite important this in a way to have them and not to contrast them to go on with their own project that sometime is not are not exactly mine so I have to be tolerant patient to try to understand and to be able to tell them if I have something so so there is a succession plan absolutely fundamental okay um is one of them the a parent to Angelo one one of is one of them the a parent to Angel Gaia there’s three kids are they equal or one be in charge I still don’t know I’m very sorry I a lot of people is is telling me that I have to be able to choose who will be the follower at the moment I am prepared and uh maybe maybe they will maybe they will choose maybe maybe they will choose ex that I hope strongly and I try for me what is important differently than my father my father was was not used talking to me about his knowledge and about his the work that he was doing he was Silent not because he was jealous because he believed that everybody had to to know that you know that was common sense and so on I speak to my children a lot of time and they send SMS and they send send written what I think I hope that they will be able to read all what the the the suggestion that they give advices that I give them and I try to prepare as much as possible grandchildren Grand two uh from Rosana as two little boy eight and six years old h Gia is not married I believe that she’s contrary the marriage and joavan is 30 years old we see what will be happening well gian’s got to get on the stick absolutely yes what what but even even can I say something about future no you can’t say about the future of course you can talk about the future the uh the climate change is has a given benefits and and preoccupation ER from aside comparing last century in this Century we never had so many vages that the grapes were perfectly ripe and healthy in I remember in the past it could happen that the grapes were not ripe and during September October a lot of rain destroying the quality and so on disaster completely h no more now in the 20 years never happened rarely and we had practically uh eight nine V out of 10 with excellent quality excellent wi and so on even too much because the heat is pushing up the alcohol you know perfectly and so we have to be able to manage but from from many sides the the was were a good opportunity from the other side we have illnesses new illnesses coming and from even foreign countries and and aggress becoming aggressive with The Vineyards and be becoming difficult to to have a control and even if in in the past we were used having a summer time the real summertime in June and July and after August was the month of transition the temperature were going down slowly and but continuously and preparing the Autumn now we have even full Eastern in June July full Eastern in August full Eastern in in September and even at the end at the half of October is still Eastern too much you know and this what creates H the The Grapes become often dried the grapes and the the sugar inside increases too much so we have to be able to manage this is not not so easy but we will do our best and we keep it to we maintain it to be optimistic so um you’ve accomplished a lot you’ve made a lot of friends around the world you are the first one what’s on your bucket list what what’s on your bucket list what have you not achieved that you would like to do while you’re still here it’s called a bucket list I believe I am very sorry I believe to to to to have been lucky and uh lucky because I had the teachers my grandmother my father lucky because I had my like mavi but many I had the many Myer that I could learn H lucky because I had a wife Luchia that uh made three children and uh was able to grow up when I was for a long time outside from the camp from the home and so on and still working in the office almost at 10 hour days that I became a little bit aggressive because I would like she took a care of me much more and then not of the office H but shapo and after having three children that are all in the company and so on what they can uh what they can like more to more I believe it’s it’s enough for me so final question and I asked this question of Ernest G when I interviewed him in 1999 when he was 90 years old on his birthday and after you answer it I’ll tell you what he said he was Italian too no okay a hundred years from now there’s a book big book and the book is called the Encyclopedia of wine it’s a historical document and we go to it’s an alphabetical order we go to I guess g and there’s the name Angel Gaia what do you want it to say in the book how do you want to be remembered uh like uh a producer an Italian producer proud to be Italian that had a big help by the reputation that Italy was able to achieve a by in in in improving quality uh Vision about Italian wise in the in in the last 40 years and that this helped to pushing up Gia on the top of the of the pyramid but it was the energy from the bottom it went up so when I asked Ernest what did he say a few words and his answer longer after a long pause he said I was there oh look at there CH so listen very very this is theal over we have known each other 44 years incredible what you you were another great M Maestro for me thank you I then you gave me the chance you gave me the chance to jump up on your prestigious stage at the New York one is per and let me see and then never talking about why because I I refused always putting the nose in the glass and you gave me the chance of talking over other things and not explaining about the wine thank you all right I got to tell one last story then then we’re done because it really belongs here I for years tried to you know by the way the New York wine experience which is this weekend that’s why you’re in New York it’s 42 years yes we go back before the New York before the wild experience but for years I wanted you to speak and you would never speak you said you can’t speak English no I understand and finally I got you had agreed to speak I don’t remember what year it was 93 first time that I jump up there3 and I’ll never forget it as long as I would because it was so um memorable uh it was so it’s so vivid to me right now you agreed to speak you got up there normally I always sat in the first row to hear all the speakers sorry with with Robert MAV Michael Broadband you were there all as your wife when you went to speak I went up in the balcony because I just wanted to watch I wanted to be a fly on the wall and I’d never done that for anyone before or since I was just in the balcony by myself listening to you watching in you and I’ll never forget as long as I live when it was all over normally it’s like 9 under thousand people they just March out of the room it was all over and I saw something I’ve never seen before you were standing at the podium and there was a line of people who attended your tasting all the way to the back room there had to be 300 people waiting in line as though they’re wai waiting to kiss the hand of the Pope I don’t know where I don’t you know I had always this but this this let me finish I always had a view of you of a unique special person who lived a life almost religiously but I didn’t know that there were hundreds thousands of people out there that treasured you the way they obviously did so when I saw this wine that went and people waited in the lne for 20 30 minutes to get a chance to just say it it to this day it’s one of the greatest memories of my life at the wine experence thank you this happened with thanks to you that gave me the chance of being there and so on and despite I wasn’t able to speak English and so on but the people was so special and it was were so nice to give me the chance to to have their sh shaking hand and saying some words and I and they remember always I would I would like to say that during the afternoon on uh Thursday and Friday when people is there is only New York that is so large number of people and so on I believe that always I consider that my duty was to stay back my booth because in honor and to be a to to thank the people that the camp are there and to sh that to to do unfortunately I don’t like selfish but okay but they like it to be and to to them it was one of the high weights of the wine experience to to meet the owners the wine makers the personality I believe that our duty is to stay there yeah absolutely okay well it’s 2023 hopefully we’re gonna get together for many many years to come thank you that Marvin thank you for all and I believe that your uh magazine did a very important work was the first to talk about ER to to to give to make a culture and to to to sell culture to your readers about the wine region about the history of wine producers about the area to visit the town and so one where is possible to find good quality wines and so on and to help consumers to understand that restaurants to understand that it’s possible to make money with wine and keeping the wine correctly and having the right the glasses and so on you did the work fantastic we have to thank you thank you to um to Friendship thanks a lot for many many years ago many years of good health good health no publication covers the world of wine as completely as wine spectator featuring exclusive interviews with wine makings Living Legends and the world’s finest chefs each issue of wine spectator magazine takes readers to the world’s greatest Vineyards and most interesting dining destinations most important wine spectator rates and reviews thousands of wines each year with an incredible database of over 400,000 wine reviews wine Spectators editors guide you to the highest quality wines as well as the world’s best values there’s a reason wine spectator is the world’s most widely read Wine magazine take your wine enjoyment to Greater Heights And subscribe today at winespectator.com [Music]