Discover Italian food and beverage at its finest with Andrew Cotto, author, journalist, and editor-in-chief of Appetito Magazine. Jim sits down with Andrew for an exploration of the flavors of Italy that traces Andrew’s transformation from novelist to food magazine entrepreneur, and includes insights on how Italian-American culture has evolved over the years. The conversation highlights the power that food has to bring us together, as well as the importance of forming deeper connections with family and adult male relationships.
[Music] Andrew Cotto is a uh uh well-known Italian food and drink afficianado you’re the editor-in-chief of Appetito at Italian food and drink online magazine you’re a chef you’re a Critic you’re a tour guide fishing about all things Italian and family and rituals uh so nice to meet you Andrew it’s a pleasure to meet you Jim thanks for having me on and I hear that you’ve recently ventured into the podcast Arena yes we just had our first podcast the Appetito podcast um and our guest was Roco speiro oh terrific Rocco despo rocketed to fame quite a few years ago and he was one of the first chefs to have a reality TV show he was actually the first person to have a reality TV show The restant was the was the precursor was the first the inaugural I should say um reality TV show on NBC the same people who made it when that show was cancelled did The Apprentice of Donald Trump no kidding well so we have him to thank I mean for whatever that’s worth I mean so tell me just like Donald Trump and me and my brother Chris you’re you’re from Queens right no I’m actually from New Jersey uh my family is from Queens y my first novel is set in Queens and actually two of my novels are um pasta Mike my last one and my first one um the domino effect book take place in Queen so I use as a backdrop very often I’m inspired by the city um I have books in almost every bur at this point um except for Staten Island and no offense to them um I’ll get maybe I’ll get there um but yeah I I think I’ve made myself appear to be like a Queens boy but I’m actually a jersey boy you don’t you don’t sound like one of us no I don’t know if that’s a compliment or not it is what uh what town in New Jersey did you grow up in Glenn Rock it’s Bergen County it’s just just over the George Washington Bridge M Bergen countyy is a a beautiful place yes very near suburb it was very near the city felt like it felt like our the next town over it was we could see the city you know the skyline was there it was it was really easy to get in and out we were there a lot so you talked about uh authoring several books uh tell us what your career path has been I know you went to school in Connecticut how’d that come about and then what was your career path after school actually went to school in Virginia um I went to wibur college in Virginia um a Queens Connecticut Virginia New Jersey um it’s all it’s all across a bridge yeah I mean it’s it’s all it’s all than 100 miles of here except Virginia um so I went to undergrad School in Virginia my my ambition was to be a baseball player I was a high school baseball star I guess I could say that um I had intentions of you know you know pursuing that and got to college and realized that I just was out of love with the game I was a pitcher you know and sitting around you know six days a week watching other people play baseball is not that much fun waiting for my one day um I had other interests you know social interest Etc became too much of a burden so I quit you know I was not a particularly you know good student I didn’t grow up you know reading books um you know I was I was an outdoors kid you know an adventure kid um you know maybe at times a bad kid but um you know I didn’t have any academic interests um until I discovered a love of writing when I was in college you know I I I took freshman English kind of EXC exed me you know I took some literature classes poetry class creative writing and it really sparked an interest in me and a passion for storytelling you know so I grew up in a family of storytellers my uncles and my father and my aunts you know they’re all great at telling stories you know the kids in kids in my neighborhood we sat around we weren’t like throwing rocks at each other we were you know telling stories about you know things we’d heard or about things we’d experienced and I really Lov that that notion of being the person who’s facilitating The Narrative you know you get the attention you get to you know entertain people you get to educate them sometimes so this idea of being a Storyteller just landed on me when I was in college and I graduated with this Grand ambition you know to to go to New York City you get my Master’s Degree and be a teacher and a writer you know both my parents were teachers I come from both family of teachers you know I love that idea my favorite show Growing Up was Welcome Back Cotter you know so I was I was I was down with that model with the writing as being sort of a component of it um then I chickened out the idea of you know having to pay for graduate school you know live on my cousin’s couch where I was living in New York City you know have no real idea if I could make it as a writer you know it’s a pretty it’s a pretty daunting um career path um and you know I also knew that you know teaching even if I did it well it it wasn’t lucrative you know my father left teaching for that very reason you know he was sick of driving a Greyhound bus on the weekends and in the summer just to just to pay the bills so someone offered me a job in the entertainment industry you know a job in the music industry which I love my other passion you know if I could have been a rock star over a writer I would have chosen it in a moment I just didn’t have the who wouldn’t I didn’t have the innate talent to do so so um I where did you go to apply for that Rockstar job I’m not I couldn’t figure it out that was that was the thing I think it’s you apply in your basement growing up you know six hours a day practicing every day and I didn’t have that in me either so I I took this job and it was a wonderful job I traveled around the country and around the world a little bit um I was entertaining people uh a lot you know out at Great New York City restaurant so I was really getting immersed in the food scene of New York City because I I knew the food scene I grew up in a family of Italians of course but my family in particular I think had a Ru ma for for for entertaining and for for really you know Gourmet Italian American food did did you have family that came from Italy yes my grandparents on both sides of my family are Italian so I’m the second generation 100% Italian American you grew up speaking Italian no this is it’s not uncommon in my generation My parents’s Generation for the for the those who immigrated to not want to speak Italian they wanted their kids to be their kids and their grandkids to be Americans you know there’s also that issue of of the Discrimination Italian immigrants faced when they arrived here you know they were they were it’s not particularly welln but if you check out the movie Cabrini that just came out you’d have a better idea you know thaan Americans were were were were fiercely discriminated against so language was a way for them to sort of you know break down that pattern of bias um so they were they were adamant about it you know my grand my grandfather did not speak English you know so I heard Italian but it it was you know it was it was very much on the side and not not encouraged at all but the family was tight we were every Sunday at my grandparents house you know H high water you know were they nearby yeah they were in Palace park right you know just over the bridge and my other family was in Corona the other family was Leonia which is next and over from palace’s Park so we every Sunday was just us together all day and there was there was no excuse right there was no soccer game or birthday party or you know illness short of hospitalization that would that would keep you from being there all day you know but I my joke that I ate Italian food every day growing up in tce on Sunday because on Sunday we went there for lunch and we stayed I I was going to say with how many meals were there on Sunday that you took PL in it was an all day Affair and it’s it’s probably the thing of from my childhood and had a wonderful childhood that was probably the aspect of my childhood that is the aspect that I miss the most and do you try it to replicate that it’s too hard every Everybody well we can talk about a little bit I know that is one of the things I want to love to get to because I want to try and do it now but it was been too hard growing up every everybody’s families are are so spread apart you know so that obligation of having to be there is no long longer valid because they live in they live in Kentucky or they live in Boston or they live you know in Maryland you know so like that that dispersement of the family I guess probably with my parents generation and some in mine you know really makes it difficult you know I my I have kids and they have cousins you know and they’re not nearly they don’t see each other as much as I saw my cousins growing up and that that that that that bothers me yeah we work hard in my family I have grandchildren three grown kids and each of them have kids and uh we work hard to make sure the cousins get to see one another we’re very lucky they all live nearby within you know 10 minutes is the long trip uh one walking distance and uh we we work as a family to make sure we get together we had my wife had a birthday last week and my uh my Grands son has a birthday today and uh so my son and his wife entertained the whole family at their house on Sunday for the birthdays my wife and my grandson and and it’s it’s good that I see my kids are into that too uh to making sure the whole family gets together and uh that the grandkids and and and especially the youngest grandkids just love my 5-year-old grandson says oh I’m gonna see my cousins today you know and he’s all excited and and we don’t have that those good food traditions being Irish we didn’t have good food yeah sorry but but we do try and make believe we’re either Jewish or Italian and have a have a lot of good food around and all of my kids cook oh that’s great I think the key to your success in this in this respect is is proximity yes it it’s so important you know I have you know you have friends or you get into conversation with people and you oh yeah I have four grandchildren yeah two are in San Francisco and two are in singap P for two years and I thought oh I’m sad that that you’re not with them you know we’re we’re just very very lucky and then we have a a summer home uh at an East End of Long Island uh where we really do spend a lot of time together in the summertime I mentioned I was the oldest to five and my brothers and sisters are all about making sure we all get together as a big extended extended family too it’s getting hotter and hotter because there’s a lot of numbers now and very few people can handle uh the uh uh large numbers in their homes I remember several thanksgivings in my house as a kid we have uh other families would join us different years and I’d love when we’d have Italian friends coming because I love this thing called managot what is this that’s a whole meal and no for you it’s just an appetizer oh okay oh that was my grandmother’s special one of her Specialties I always joke that you know when I talk about sensory um trigger sensory memories you know if someone ever walked past wherever I was with the tray of my grandmother’s menag gotta I would I would be absolutely just projected back into my childhood you know it was up and following oh absolutely and tackling so uh tell tell me about some many other rituals uh that that you remember or you’re trying to mimic from your childhood uh would there would would you say grace before dinner would there be the same conversations would the same uncle tell the same story every Easter what do you remember about rituals we said and it was a pretty similar thing you know like it was it was a really fun scene and so vivid in my memory and that my own family was so much fun there’s there’s lots of families who just sit on the table and maybe people should be kids should be seen but not heard and this was a festival my mother and his sisters that that was the family it was my my grandparents and they three three daughters they’re very Dynamic at the end of the meal did the women scoop up the plates and disappear into the kitchen leaving the men for conversation yeah but it wasn’t it it wasn’t so gender separate like that I mean the men and the women were got along fabulously they were all super fun my uncles’s I think all three of my mothers and her sisters married very well they had really interesting guys my dad was a musician my Uncle Matt was a real character from Corona Queens you know uncle Lenny you we were all they were all really Dynamic people who love to have fun they would play in the radio in the kitchen so everybody would bring everything out together you know clean up together and then like a dance party would break out in the kitchen the husbands and wives would be dancing to son playing on WW radio you know my grandmother would be singing it was just a really fun environment it was great to witness as kids because you got to see your parents a little like loosen up a little bit and of course they were they were drinking wine and hanging cocktails beforehand did anyone in the family make wine yeah my grandfather made wine of course I me I think that’s that’s write a passage for any immigrant you got to make wine in the basement and my father still jokes this day about know the the elers he had from cuz it really wasn’t particularly good um and did they put it in gallon jugs yeah of course the big Fiasco jugs with with the w with the Wicker Basket on them you know and there was anet and sambuka you know they at their dinner you know the DJ divos and black coffee and everybody smoked you know it it was it was it was like a Speak Easy with Italian food it was it was and so we didn’t have particular rituals because the ritual was that it was always the whole thing was a ritual yeah and my cousins like my cousin was they musicians and singers and my my female cousins they were all into theater so they they’ find clothes in my grandmother’s closet and then do a performance of something from you know Cabaret or whatever you know you know for us F later so little performances throughout there really really a magical time yeah how many siblings I only have one but I I have I have eight cousins and so you’re working uh you you come to Manhattan and then tell us next step on your career path so I’m doing the you know the the Manhattan young man out of college thing and doing quite well in sales you know I was entertaining A lot it wasn’t a very particularly difficult job you know we just have to you know make a lot of phone calls and entertain people and I was finding great success you got to experience the good restaurant scene in New York was really getting into the resta found that interesting but that experience um opened me open my eyes to was that there was a different kind of Italian food you know growing up we we didn’t call it Italian American food we call it Italian food but then I realized there was Regional Italian food so food from the different regions of Italy from ail Romana from from Rome from Tuscany you know from from the Veno from pamon and I was like getting really curious about the country of Italy for the first time in my life you know I you you at that time had not been to Italy i’ had never been only place I’ve been overseas at that fin was France so I was really becoming intrigued with regional Italian cooking and what region were your relatives from well I I find myself very lucky that my father’s family is from piamonte in the very North right and my mother’s family is from Sicily so I’m like I’ll cover the entire Peninsula and and the island and you can stop in calib and pulia in between uh all those places in between I I love all the regions so but my my taste were were most of the restaurants that were opening up were really you know from from Central Italy and North to T Rome and North basically and I was really BEC intrigued with the country itself for the first time and decided to take a trip there and I I was mentioned I was doing quite well with this job and the company rewarded me with with the trip anyway in the world I wanted to go they suggested a crew they suggested a cruise and I said no thank you um I would like to go to Italy they said fine go to Italy so I went um you know on a first class trip to Venice Florence and Rome and when I was in Florence for about a day I said I’m I’m moving here you know I’m moving here I’m quitting my job and I’m going to become a writer you know the idea of writing was always with me I’ve been working on a book in my spare time um and I just was having a hard time finding the the energy to to plow through it the first novels are grueling you’re learning so much on the Fly I didn’t have my master’s degree in creative writing yet so I was really you know on my own there and I figured I wanted to do it if I didn’t do it at that point in my life I’d regret it you know I I was married at the time we had a toddler um oh we was there I was married and then the time we got back there when I said I’m going to move here and my wife laughed at me we were there about two years later with our with our Todd her daughter um i’ quit my job subed our apartment our house in Brooklyn and and basically spent a year writing all morning and then you know adventuring all afternoon and then the weekends going around different regions um even other countries flying to Spain for two days which you can do easily from from Florence or anywhere in Italy um came back and with with a finished novel you know and and launched my career as a novelist wow and uh and you lived right there in Florence just outside the city in a commun called man it’s it’s about a 10 minute drive into the Florence City proper it was amazing but it looked like you were in the middle of nowhere look like you’re in the middle of of keti country wow such a beautiful place Florence isn’t it oh it’s spectacular I mean I know that it’s small and it can you can do it probably thoroughly in three days I just find the Beauty and the serenity they so magical the light and it’s some unique unique food items that are only in Florence yeah every every region and probably every city within those regions are going to have their own indigenous specialty dishes that they make you’ll see everywhere you know um you know it’s cristini for that for for an anti Pasto you know the chicken liver Christini is on every menu they didn’t call it chicken liver they call it Christini you know they imp yeah it’s it’s you know it’s a really amazing City from a culinary standpoint um and I fact I have two novels set there years later I wrote these books that were take place I didn’t they’re not Memoir they’re works of fiction but they take place in the very environs which I occupied you know for that year but it’s really about American and goes there on holiday and says he’s never going to leave you know I said I was going to go for a year you know this guy says he’s never going to leave you know and the book’s really about his his his attempt to stay there permanently um when food is is the real is the real Catalyst for that he he recognizes that you know when he’s in Italy he feels different you know you know he was he got there depressed it was it was like an escape for him and you know he started exploring and discovering um all the the beauty of the area but the food in particular the how how fresh it is how accessible it is how it’s for everybody you know there’s a line in the book about you know if you want to eat well in New York City you have to be rich and what he’s saying in Italy Everybody Eats Rich it’s it’s it’s not it’s not a privilege it’s a right and that affects his mindset it affects his mental health and and he’s that’s why he’s so you know just determined to never leave he thinks that quality of life right is the best quality of life available and it’s arguable that it is yeah and it’s all real food yeah it’s all you know they don’t have Farm the table they have farmers who who live down the street who bring it to your table what else would that be it’s not a con leave it on a farm yeah I mean it’s not a concept it’s it’s a way of life and the I one of the big things we do at atito magazine which I launched last year is is really advocate for that lifestyle so yes we want to we want to feature chefs and new restaurants and Trends but we’re also really advocating for people to be conscious of what they’re eating you know to to make sure that even was whether it’s Italian food or not that we prefer that it is but they’re they’re conscious of it where is it from you know you know what’s what’s the portion that’s appropriate you know big problem we have in America oversized portions yeah we assume more is more when it comes to food you know this is particularly true in the South and maybe a little less so in the midwest you know where they they still have that mindset where like you know a family style portion for one person is a good thing you know and it’s really not Italians eat you know very moderately they eat throughout the day I and they enjoy their food immensely right and that’s why they’re so fabulous I look at the Italians there they walk everywhere they walk everywhere they’re active like in that respect you know there’s like two gyms in all of Italy you know but people look they exercise because you the way they eat and in the lifestyle they ride their bikes everywhere they walk you know so we’re really advocating for that at atito that the lifestyle so how did the idea for Appetito come to you this is an evolution of your living there you always love the culture the the rituals the food the lifestyle and say we we ought to we ought to Chronicle our interest and create a magazine but you say well let’s let’s skip ahead we see what’s happening to the print Publications everywhere else let’s go right to a a digital digital magazines yeah I wish I had that much foresight I me unlike you Jim I’m not an entrepreneur I I don’t have those instincts and those skills you I was writing a lot about Italian food right it found its way into all my novels you know and one at one point my said to me you should really write you you just wanted to write it off as research come on we know what you’re up to I’m not that smart I told you I was just like I like feeding people so I ended up starting feeding my characters and I and it was pointed out to me that hey you do a lot of really good food writing and I said oh I guess I do so I pivoted from there to writing food for um newspapers and magazines I wrote essentially for the New York Times for many many years um I wrote for Men’s Journal out a column that had a lot of Italian food Rachel Ray magazine azine the list is probably published 500 plus articles over the last you know number of years but they started veering closer and closer to to being almost entirely about Italian food so I found myself writing extensively for laucha Italiana which is the Bible of Italian food magazines in Italy they had a USA operation they folded that operation during the pandemic um for some reason you know some decision out of Milano um and I said fine I’ll take my stories elsewhere and I was having a really hard time finding Publications who wanted to to write to to print stories about Italian food in general and particular the people behind the food which is really my focus and they were really interested in more Progressive Cuisines and chefs from different parts of the world with different backgrounds and Etc and there wasn’t room for what I believe to be and I’m not alone in this belief the most popular food in the world so I went to the person I was who was my managing editor at La Italiana guy named Richard Martin a publishing veteran and said there’s a there’s a void here right there’s not a single publication dedicated exclusively to Italian food in America and people want that that publication we we we brainstorm for a while and we came up and we launched it together last June would probably be our official launch date and uh it took off right away it’s been very popular R soon it’s popular it’s a lot of work Jim my goodness being an entrepreneur is tough this is probably why I didn’t I didn’t never had the instinct to do it because it’s we’re a startup and it’s two of us we have a thankfully we have a collection of really you know talented generous contributors who help us keep the magazine fresh and and we have content every single day but it’s still a lot of like you know busy work I’m I’m loading you know photos and writing captions and cropping those photos and editing people’s work you know I’m a writer you know I I wasn’t I’m not trained as an editor or or a magazine I I’m not even a journalist by training I’m a novelist by training so this is all lot lot of this new to me and my partner does much of the the heavy lifting and I’m the front of the the magazine um but we still we still spend a lot of time staring at our screens you know posting and promoting putting you got to promote on social media we need a staff we need an investor so in Appetito magazine uh besides the food are you talking about your your youth experiences your own family experiences your own adult travel experiences because so much of what you seem to be interested in is the gathering around the table what that means Beyond the food yes you’re expert on the food and it’s it’s the center centerpiece literally and figuratively of the table but it seems to me those connections those family situations that dialogue seems to be equally important to you we promote that a lot in the maging I’ve shared my own personal experiences my favorite kind of Journalism writing is personal essays I love saying I wrote about the how I went to Italy how I got there I write about the things I did when I was there you I write about you know um the experiences I had have here in New York you know with food and I talk a lot about the way it affects my my my well-being you know I the personal experience about like you know this this really does have an impact you know on how I feel and you know these are tough times you know like you know the pandemic was was really an ey opener for me like you know I was probably 90% committed to Italian food is in my career and then the pandemic really pushed me over the edge because you know it it I think it saved me you know I was eating really healthy I was I was doing Facebook live presentations I’d read passages from my books then cook the things that I made you know and they were really popular people were saying I look forward to this every single week I look forward to you know you know so it was really inspiring me to sort of get my face out that’s that’s creative it was great me I did a TV show called dinner with Andrew where my friend who’s a a creative director would come in and film me making things is on my YouTube channel you know um so I really got you know this idea of like not just you know sharing recipes and I think that’s valuable but like really like entertaining people and educating them about Italian food and and being being a public face you know I’ve been on TV quite a few times here in New York particularly with Rand es scado um I’ll be on wpx you know the channel 11 next week you know like like really like being out front with this you know talking about you know not just you know the the rituals and the the enjoyment but you know the benefits just are immense besides rosanna’s restaurant which is a really good one and just a couple of blocks from where I am now what other restaurants in Manhattan do you really like going to that’s a good question how much time do we have as much as you need I love the highend places like the leopard de artist and elardo um Lucho up on the upper west side kazal Lon and Midtown you know I got a p is is top of my list IL Molino is is good too but uh I was in there last year with a couple we were friends with and it was we were in there very early and it was a December night we we’re going to uh uh uh at coni hall right behind her for the holiday pops and who walks in but s Paul S Paul McCartney came just us of the table and he’s R blowing into his hands Waring them up and with the only table occupied they had a a big table in the back that he was going to a couple other people had ride for it and he stop by the table to say hello and I don’t recognize celebrities and I’m certainly not a struck by celebrities except for Seb Hall yeah yeah I don’t blame me on that I I I hear he bed around a lot of Italian restaurants I think he was just in cistina which is a great we been there in upper side cistina sure sure that’s fabulous but my favorite place to eat in New York is not one of the the more high-end places it’s a Neapolitan Pizzeria and Restaurant on West House Street called song inapoi it’s just amazing they won on the upper west side too and won two on the same street in West H and one rford1127 guy a real Neapolitan he’s a he’s an incredible guy Nam Cheto yovin um and I just love him as a human being and he sort of testifies to my belief that you know I’m far more interested in the people or I’m as interested in the people that as I am in the food A friend of mine has a saying he’s a he’s a New Yorker that has lived most of his adult life in St Louis but he said uh our favorite restaurant is the one where they know our name and I think everybody has their favorite local neighborhood Italian restaurant and I live out in Manhasset on Long Island uh the next town over is Port Washington and O is a dagio and just the people are wonderful it’s a unpretentious place it’s a simple Place uh but the food is so good but more than that the Warmness of the people there they’ve been there all the everyone who works in there has been there 30 years uh those are the kids and so but there not something nice about the smell of a local Italian restaurant the the the welcome you get the just you feel comfortable it’s like a an old shoe that just fits and feels very comfortable there’s a restaurant in Oyster Bay called stalina run by an Italian friend of mine that’s fabulous I mean that is one of the best restaurants in all the tri-state area um I me I must I must shout out my I live in Brooklyn so if I don’t mention my neighborhood place I’m going to get a shoe in the back of the head you are for sure yeah it’s called Brooklyn Roots right here in Third Avenue in Bay Ridge I’m there once twice a week I love it and the food’s fabulous the chef um Thomas Joseph Peron he’s traditionally trained and he grew up in Benson Hurst but he just elevated Italian food to a level that I’ve never experienced um and he’s she’s just a dear friend and I I walk in there I’m sure you go to sheep’s head Bay once in a while or go to G Julios yes gulio is great um that’s that’s cing Island actually um and Michaels of Brooklyn in m in Marine Park that’s staggering too I mean there’s just so many restaurants again how much time do we have here we can do this all day when you’re in Italy do they have Chinese food there yeah for Chinese tourists I was going to say we were chatting yesterday about chatting with you and I said you know I’ve been to Italy many times and I love Italy uh it’s off my wife and my favorite place in the world but I said I don’t remember seeing anything other but Italian restaurants I mean you’ll see a little Chinese place tucked around the corner but I really think they’re catering to a The Italian who does it on the side and and B those just just the throws of Chinese tourists are going through there who just you know you know at some point are you know they’re going to want to eat Chinese food well so tell me how is uh H what’s what’s your favorite part of Appetito and and the things you’re doing now you talked about all that there is to do and people can’t imagine that every little dot you see on that beautiful website had to be crafted by somebody and that work had to be done but what are you enjoying most about this whole experience the community I’m out three nights a week if I want you know I’m trying to pair that back a little bit because I’m burning out you know but like there’s a really great Italian food community in in New York and around the country the people are just so enthusiastic all our contributors you know the restaurants that we work with the chefs we meet you know the pr people who put us in touch with them it’s a really beautiful Community I was at a party last night at setti Pon Restaurante in Harlem the seti pon family has a bakery in Williamsburg in a restaurant in Harlem beautiful family we joke that up I’m Andrew setani I’m part of the family and they had a party for a Anna franches gas who has a new cookbook out and it was just a beautiful scene she was lovely and kind and welcoming and everybody there was happy you know it’s it’s very validating to be surrounded by people you know the pr people I work with a lot of them are my personal friends you know I just went to one of their baby showers you know um you know people like Cho I was telling you about you know there’s a real joy in you know people who are who are in the Italian food Community you know um that that that really that really drives me and it gives me great pleasure I went to I did a presentation at the Columbus um citizens Federation off Central Park East boy they have good food there amazing I didn’t know they had food until they invited me to I guess the presentation went so well that they invited me downstairs to eat in the Taverna because no nobody mentioned it before their presentation all like Andrew let’s go downstairs bring your friends you know and the food was fabulous I’m actually going back there to do to read passages from my Italian books um all food passages and they’re going to make a menu based on the things I read and we’re all going to go to oh that sounds like fun you had the lecture upstairs and then you come downstairs um for the meal you guys should come you and your wife should come we’d love love to too so well I love when you go to the Tian American League club there that you start with a couple of lumps that I don’t know where they get that Rano poman there it’s just the best yeah it’s from ailia that’s that’s why it’s so good s save the rest I’m GNA just nsh on this oh yeah they this big know where it’s not from Wisconsin and that’s no disrespect to Wisconsin they make fine cheeses in Wisconsin but but parmesan cheese and parmesano regano are not the same cheese right the parag regano from Mil ROM is you know it’s age you know you know 24 months 36 months you know it comes from cows these red cows some from these red cows of vosi that are that are grow they’re eating grass in Italy you know that’s coming from minerals in the soil it’s just every part of the production and they and they monitor that stuff like crazy the pjo the paragano I mean there’s people like inspectors coming in there and they’re like serious so who’s the actor had to show on CNN uh going around Italy eating all that good food Stanley Tucci Stanley Tucci I mean he had your job yeah I I want his job that’s what I mean you got to knock him off and say hey look this is my job I’m trying I can’t find anyone who wants to knock him off everybody loves this guy the show was canceled by CNN but but not Geo just picked it up you know oh is that right yeah I’m glad because it did a lot for people know it’s fun to see the food being prepared and you know and enjoyed but they they go behind the scenes a lot and they also you know help educate Americans about the different regions of Italy you know a lot of Americans are somewhat ignorant to the fact that Italy is 20 distinct regions each one’s kind of like their own country in many ways with with distinct Cuisine you know and every single one of them is spectacular you know from the from the south right to the to very North they’re all really amazing regions I love the idea of getting Americans to to go beyond the Venice Florence Rome Naples sort of track you know my wife and I were in Sicily for the first time a few years ago and a wonderful Guy picked us up at the airport and he’s driving us to terramina and uh just enjoying the conversation with him I said what what are you doing uh what are you doing tomorrow he said well you know I’ll drive again tomorrow you said he had this was his second job I said well if if we were interested are you available to be with us for the for the week and he said well I’ll ask my boss and he called his boss he says yeah I’m available so we had a lovely week with him but I said to him are are you uh are you Sicilian or are you Italian he looked at me he says we’re not Italian we’re Sicilian but the the pride in all the different regions around Italy and they still tell you Italy is still a very new country in some respects yeah on paper yes you know but you know those rivalries go back centuries you know I mean even within the regions like Sienna and Florence they don’t like each other and not just for soccer and you know Sports it seems the further north you are the more Elite you feel that’s true I mean there is a there is a dist it’s sort of like America with the South and the north you know you know there there’s definitely a level of industry and sophistication you know the fashion and the cars and the things that Italy is known for you know from the north the great artists were from the Renaissance from Florence and Rome Etc you know I mean there is there is an argument to that but it doesn’t mean it’s any more Charming I think a lot of these Southern regions where you know a lot of people’s families immigrated from you know are have incredible charm Calabria and compan of course you know Sicily is amazing but pulia is an incredible region you know they’re all you know I would go to every single region Italy and and have equally as good time though I am very much still a Florentine in my heart because of my experience there and how it transformed my life pulia grows a lot of roses and ethereum yeah well you can imagine why right it’s on the Adriatic Coast it’s mountainous right the soil is is incredibly mineral mineral rich I mean it’s just it’s every single region has you know the things that are indigenous to it because they had the best home field advantage in the world the country of Italy has the it’s it’s a peninsula with two you know vibrant Seas on either side so we get to get the winds it’s mountainous it has volcanoes so you have Ash speing out that that goes into the soil that leaves all these minerals you can’t get tomatoes that taste like the tomatoes that are near vvus anywhere in the world you know they’re that good you just eat them I I I I was just at song anapol other day and he made me a VE cutlet with these cherry tomatoes from you know from Tania and the the I wanted the cherry tomatoes more than I wanted the ve that was the star it’s they’re just they they’re indigenous products right are so incredible but they also really take advantage of it you know they don’t they don’t know sit on their Loyals when it comes like monitoring the production you know really coveting them making it part of their culture you know champ festivals and sagras and things you know for for Chili Peppers you know they’re just so comp so passionate about their food and it that’s why is the best in the world Andrew let’s go back to another region the region of New Jersey and tell me about growing up you had a had a great friend uh your moms were both very close uh and you were born within a short time of one another tell me about Mike so that work you’re referring to is my it’s a novel called pasta mic and it’s actually yeah there it is I have mine right here too um it’s actually um a work of fiction because I didn’t want to do I just didn’t have the heart to do a memoir but Mike was my best friend um we were baptized together you know our mothers as you mentioned were pregnant at the same time they were neighbors this this little sequestered little neighborhood and we grew up in each other’s skin I mean I I saw him every day of my life it was the first thing I did every day was get up go to his house or he was coming to my house whoever got there first and we spent all day together we we went through our rights of Passage together he was the best man at my wedding you know you know you know we we and we remained that close through our entire lives and we were in our early 40s he was diagnosed with lukemia um and Michael was huge he was he was bigger he was a larger than life figure you he was he was a law enforcement officer just like his father was the New York City Cop um he was you know 6 foot 240 all muscle you know Irish handsome you know beautiful kid huge the biggest heart you know that was the biggest part of you know I always say like you know my I’m trying to describe him in a nutshell is that he was the most popular guy at the party but he’s also the nicest guy at the party you know who had this instinct to say now this person is not feeling welcome I’m gonna make him feel welcome it was like his job so when he was diagnosed it was devastating you know just you know it still it still bothers me every single day of my life um and then when he passed it it set me off the rails pretty bad and I felt like I needed I felt obliged to write a story about that experience because I know how hard it is for men to talk about their friends you know we don’t we were supposed to keep our friends close you know but not just tell him that we love him Mike said he loved me every time he saw me right you know and I wanted to sort of a um explore the the the importance of friendships for male um and B also understand know that mental health is an issue that that affects men you know predominately around that age you know you know you start losing your Vitality a little bit and you know you’re probably more vulnerable um to to trauma you know this is pretty big trauma so it was hard for me to sort of get in my head around doing it because I the wounds were still so so fresh many many years um but then when the pandemic came I felt obliged because I knew mental health was a big issue during the pandemic and I wrote it but I couldn’t write it in Memoir because there’s so many things about our lives and mik was so popular and beloved that people like where was I in the book where was I in the book no I dated him in the sixth grade I was his first kiss you know I didn’t want to have to deal with that and also be true to his family and my family so I took me and Mike from our lives and plunked us out I made him a fireman instead of a cop because you know I you know Mike was probably more of a fireman in many ways you know um the police officer in the size and you know you know personality um and also just and I also tethered his illness in the book to the after effects of 911 you know one of the remind people what f firly fighters went through that day and are going through still with all the residual effects of that so but everything else about I didn’t change our names I’m Andy Cado he’s M oay right and the friendship was absolutely you know right to the point um and it was therapeutic in many ways it was also grueling I mean I cried every day and I was writing it and couldn’t every scene every memory of him would just was jarring but I just felt compelled to Ay tell his story too I wanted to leave a legacy about him for his children who he has three um two of them were pretty young when he passed you know um most almost a little bit more of an adolescent but I also wanted them to be able to say to their friends like this is my dad you know the hand of the book and say you never bet my dad what a what a gift he gave them oh it was the least I could do you know they’re a beautiful family and they they they you know this this loss I know was was brutal for me I couldn’t you know imagine being his his siblings or his which he had plenty of of course because he was Irish um um and his wife and kids so I wanted to give like a legacy present to them and you know let it live forever as he deserves to Andrew you you talked about the the gift you had of the friendship with Mike you from uh your whole life and you you said that sometimes it’s difficult for us as men to to talk about relationships and how we feel about one another uh I always uh I grew up in a neighborhood that was heavily Italian mix of Irish Jewish Italian and a lot of other others but I always uh I always admired the ability of my Italian friends to express their emotions and uh it was a lot of learning for me growing up there but why is it that it’s tough for us and we talk about this here on our our podcast and we write a lot about the importance of adult male relationships and uh it it’s a threat of my life that I I I feel so fortunate that I have really good friends and I work at it I it’s easy uh being busy I would think in the your current world that you live in and work in that you have you’re around people a lot so you get an opportunity to invest in relationships accidentally but depending on the work you do where you live sometimes you really have to work and I’m finding as I get older my wife and I have talked several times about uh maybe often about the need to be mindful of investing in and maintaining relationships with people you want to be with when I say get older there’s there’s death there’s uh illness uh there’s geography people oh we’re GNA we’re going to go down to Florida so two of our best friends closest friends uh just decided to make Florida the year round residence and that’s a that’s a blow to us uh because you know we love these people we love spending time with them the kind of people you can call up on a on a Thursday night at 6:30 and say stop cooking let’s go grab something together and those are those are the you know the really good friends uh how do you think about adult male relationships friendships maintaining a network and being deliberate about it I I think it’s far more important than than we generally recognize in our society we you know women are are very open about their friendships and they go to brunch and they have girls nights Etc and I think men often you know you know just don’t cherish that friendship or acknowledge it you know I think we’ve been trained not to express our emotions you know know it doesn’t seem manly strong silent type yeah and then that that’s the model many of us grew up with you know and and I I I I think it’s it’s it’s a gigantic disservice to men because I think as we start getting older and we’re we’re just as vulnerable emotionally as women you know and I think as we get older we have unique problems that we face you know with with losing you know our testosterone or or our Vitality we start losing our our appearances speak Andrew I to say you you are evergreen man um you and I think that makes us more vulnerable and less L less um willing to talk about it so I I I do think there’s a crisis amongst men you know in you know a certain age you I don’t I don’t think the midlife crisis term is is really you know doesn’t really cover the depth of the problem I think the real the problem is is that we’re not encouraged to cherish our friendships to tell our buddies that we love them you know to to appreciate them and be grateful for the fact that there’s people in your life right that that that that spend time with you and stick by you and that you’re able to talk to in a way that you probably can’t talk publicly often you know that was a great thing about my friendship with Mike is that there was no secrets there was never a secret there was nothing that I I could you knew he really knew you and vice versa I could do something horrible and he’d be the first person I tell and I I must admit you know one of the hardest parts about not having around anymore is I often think I gotta tell mic I gotta tell mic I gotta tell mic you know not that I’m doing horrible things not just saying anything even when good things happen not that many anyway yeah not that many you know I mean also to celebrate with when something good happens how often we pick up the phone like hey I just closed a big deal or I just you know I just I just shot 79 at at at you know tiger Heights you know you know like like sharing the joy of Our Lives you know I think it’s harder for men to do and the conversation I had with my sons recently golf is that for us I can’t call up three other friends and say hey why don’t we go shopping on Saturday morning and then afterwards we’ll do lunch I’m not getting return calls but we if if we’re fortunate enough to be physically to be able to play golf and it’s it’s social it’s 100% social yeah you getting a walk and you’re getting a little exercise but it’s it’s all about being with people you want to be with and spending time and and being away from your responsibilities for a couple hours yeah and I wish there was more options like that for for men to do you know I mean golf seems to be the Buddy thing and but not everybody plays golf right um so you know I think there I think there’d be something you know valuable and and really encouraging men you know to do the do the brch thing I don’t to call it brunch you know do go go go Stak night or whatever you want to do right you know um I mean Sports obviously rallies men around each other a lot you know I just don’t think that it’s it’s given enough attention and I think that’s to our harm society’s harm Andrew let me uh round It Out by asking you uh about the role that faith has or does play in your life uh you mentioned that you and Mike were baptized on the same day what role is religion and Faith played in your life my feeling about it is I have great faith in humanity you know I don’t necessarily ascribe to any particular belief but I I I I’m open to it but my my faith lies in the fact that I really believe in human beings I think you know we are capable of of of immense accomplishment you know of immense compassion I do believe that like like many Catholics do that you know that love is a conquering Force know so I I sort of practice my own version of faith and and try to be as as as Noble as I can to my neighbors and my friends and the people that I come across I you know I taught for 15 years in higher education and I felt like I was you know you know more than just an an educator for my students you know like a role model and someone who could help them understand the world you know I you know the first book my my book The domino effect you know it’s really a moral tale about you know this obligation we have to help people who need our help you know whether they’re your friends or strangers whatever when you have this and they need that you give that some right someone’s lost you don’t don’t know you stop and help them and you know where you are you you help them so you know it’s it’s it’s very much like some of the best tenants of religion you know you know just sort of through my own interpretation Andrew what’s next for you what’s the next big goal for Appetito well if it doesn’t kill me first I would love to know really grow it I mean we we we are doing amazing our content’s incredible you know it’s just a matter of getting up to a point where we can start seeking investors or or big advertisers you know you have to have you know a certain amount of credibility before people start putting money into it we’re doing everything right you know I would love to find an investor my partner and I would love to find an investor so we could we could you know bulk up the team you know and put you know more of ourselves is atito going to be running things like guided trips to Italy yes that’s a great Point that’s it actually we actually we actually have one on the calendar right now um for June May or June part with another company that that we’re friends friendly with um I’m not sure if we’re going to able to pull it off yet but that’s a big part of our agenda is definitely luxury food wine trips to Tuscany Amilia Romana you know Lazio um compa um North pamon yes that’s a huge part of what we want to do you we just we just need to get to a point where we can sell it with credibility you know um you know I could definitely lead a tour to to Tusk or mil Romano right right now you know we just got to get people to have faith in us and know who we are what about Tuesday’s table Andrew’s table at that local restaurant local favorite Italian restaurant Brooklyn Roots Brooklyn rots I I could see people signing up online yeah I’m in for a buck and a quarter to sit at Andrew’s table on a Tuesday night and let and he chooses the menu and we talk about it and we get to get to know one another I’m down you know that’s funny I also right for the Brooklyn Eagle you know the newspaper here in Brooklyn on their lead food columnist we just we just launched a a Brooklyn dining club I love it you know it’s such it’s such joyous time and I got to admit you know to you Jim I don’t do it enough I do it for work but I keep advocating for Sunday lunches let’s do this again let’s bring it all back with your friends and I I I recognize that I’ve become a little bit of a recluse you know in ways you know I think there is a pandemic of loneliness in this country right now A lot of people are still sort of getting shaking off the dust from the from the pandemic or the or the or the wounds whatever you want to call it um and are reluctant to be social and I keep advocating for people to get together and eat around the table and I myself haven’t done that much so you know I I live alone you know I work at home I should be out you know with friends and family much more often so hopefully me saying it out loud you know will help me you know sort of shake my do drums so if uh our listeners are interested in learning more about you and the work you’re doing at atito they can just come to ao.com come to the site and on the front page bullet and board they can see where where Andrew is hosting something and be able to decide if they want to come along and get to see you in person well that’s the problem of having like dual careers or multiple careers I’m also the editor-in-chief of Italian America magazine and the sons of Italy magazine so I have like three jobs no kidding yeah it’s a great magazine um so if you go to aptito magazine.com you can you can see all the content we’re putting up if you want to come to one of the dinners that I’m hosting that’s at the Brooklyn Eagle you know they have a a newsletter called good food that you can sign up for that I that I co-author every week with my partner Alice um and you know they can find out about the events there they’re on Eventbrite you know so they’re called the Brooklyn dining club that’s where they’d find them and they’re interested in anything more about me and my novels and my appearances of course my website is andrew.com well andrew.com so nice to get to know you today have a a wide- ranging conversation you’re you’re a terrific guy and you’re filled with passion and and and talent too obviously and I love what you did with pasta Mike and the tribute to him and the lesson you teach us all about the value of friendship and how to earn friendship and uh and invest in those relationships because as you say they’re they’re so so important thanks Andrew it was a pleasure to talk to you thank you Jim it was my pleasure byebye [Music]