Winemaker Alessandro Medici of Medici Ermete winery in Emilia-Romagna, Italy, explains every type of sparkling wine and how each is made — from Champagne to Pet-Nat and everything in between. He is an expert on this subject because — surprise! — he makes Lambrusco in every style discussed.
You can learn more about Alessandro and his wines at the Medici Ermete website – https://www.medici.it/ and by following their Instagram @mediciermete
For a glossary of the terms mentioned in this episode, visit https://wine365.com/bubbles
If you’d like to taste Alessandro’s pet-nat, Phermento, you can buy it at https://wine365.com/shop-wine/medici-ermete-phermento-2022/ – use the code BUBBLES24 for 15% off your entire order (whether Phermento is part of your order, or not).
Have a question, comment, or idea for an upcoming episode? Email me at ask@wine365.com or leave a voicemail at 513.399.6712
You can also find more wine, food, and entertaining tips at the home of Inside Wine Podcast – https://Wine365.com
If you enjoy this episode please be sure to subscribe (it’s free!) and also pass along to a friend, thank you!
not all sparkling wine is champagne and
in fact there are different types of
sparkling wine made using various
methods one of the very few wines made
in all varieties of sparkling is
Lambrusco today alesandro Medi of Medi
ore Winery and Amelia Romania will
explain every type of sparkling wine and
how each is made and among other things
you’ll learn why some costs so much more
than others let’s go
this is the inside wine podcast I’m Joe
janish a certified Specialist of wine
and wine industry professional since
1996 giving you Insider tips to make the
right wine
decisions so today our guest is
alesandro meichi he is the fifth
generation wine maker at meichi AR in
the Amilia Roman where they make some
beautiful wines including one that I
love called
Lambrusco we’ve had alesandro on before
uh we should go back and if you haven’t
heard it go back and listen to that
podcast all about Lambrusco today I am
going to talk to him about sparkling
wine because it turns out alesandro
makes every type of sparkling wine there
is so allisandro thank you for joining
us today thanks for inviting me again
it’s a wonderful pleasure to be back oh
absolutely I’ll I’ll have you on every
week if we could do it thank you Joe how
are you I’m good I’m good it’s always
fun it’s always a fun conversation so
probably most people don’t realize that
that Lambrusco as with other wies
Lambrusco is actually made can be made
in all kinds of different sparkling
variations so why don’t we like walk
through all the different types I guess
the first type is the tank method also
called the sharmat method what’s the
Italian word for sharmat is martinotti
martinotti where did that term come from
it come from the surname of the inventor
of the method that was an Italian guy
exactly like sharmat was the surname of
the guy that invented that method in
France and France that’s why we keep
hearing shanat because it was a french
guy exactly the Italians never get the
respect ever I know I know I’m so sorry
about
that even Italians Now call that Sharma
method no respect no so okay so let’s
talk about the Sharma SL Marti SL yeah
tank so first of all just one second
coming back to the first podcast yeah
absolutely um to the first episode that
we had together yes lamus is a grape yes
okay and it’s a family of different
literally the right name is biotypes
biotypes so we can say like varieties to
make it easier great with Lambrusco
grapes and all the varieties of
Lambrusco we can make the Lambrusco wine
how using three different methods as you
said before the first method that you
just asked me is the charmat or
martinotti method so basically the wine
is fermented in a steel tank so it’s
basically to make it easier the same
method of production of prco so the 90
probably the 98 99% of the production of
Lambrusco is made using this method so
charmat we can usually the fermentation
if we talk about the dry L Brusco can
last between one month to even six seven
months for example like our Flex wine
coner to is fermented for over six
months wow where we can get this gently
and elegant bubbles so usually the
producer does like um a steel and dry
wine for the first fermentation and then
adding the let’s call it like East
usually selected East for the Sharma
method we try to do the second
fermentation always in the steel tank
and basically we get a sparkling wine
and usually with the steel tank we can
get a frante wine that it doesn’t have a
specific translation in English could be
like slide sparkling when we talk about
a frante wine we usually have inside
pressure in the bottle that is usually
around 2.5 bars atmospheres okay that is
different from the Spumante that is
usually the classification for the
methodo classical for the champos method
where the inside pressure in the bottle
is over
3.5 so this method the Sharma method is
perfect to make a very fresh fruity
Lambrusco because the tank usually
preserve perfectly all the aromatic and
organic characteristics of the varieties
of Lambrusco so if you think for example
like our flexy wine called coner as I
said before we will have a very fruity
wine with this beautiful gently and
elegant perlage with a pressure that is
around 2.5 so it’s a Frant as I just
said and this is the most common method
of production of Lambrusco
okay and bars is something I’ve heard
before but I’ve never quite been able to
understand so do you know how to do the
bars toward pounds per square inch
that’s what we know in the United States
I I think you call it like atmospheres
also yeah so it’s basically the same and
we just call them bars is the internal
pressure like for example when you
describe a champagne how is the internal
pressure inside for example it’s 100 I
think okay no so it’s a different system
yeah so I I I cannot do the well we’re
dumb Americans that’s you know we just
we use okay all the different
measurements but that’s why I’m I’m C so
what is what would be the bars for a
champagne is six okay all right so now I
can I got that okay perfect so it’s
basically the double got it of uh thank
you of exactly yes all right great we
have the different levels of the bars
with the frante and there there’s also a
tax right depending on when you get to a
certain amount of atmospheres there’s
another tax yes there is there is
another tax on the Spumante wines that
is of course uh higher than frante the
Frant taxes also depends from states to
states of course but there is a tax
actually unfortunately all over the
world like in Germany is probably the
the highest tax it’s crazy because it’s
Europe so it should be easier for us to
export in that country but we pay one
EUR tax for every single bottle of
Spumante wine because it’s it’s more
sparkling so it has to get taxed for
some reason so exactly so there’s a bit
of an incentive to stay under that yes
yes I mean the wines are different you
know later we will talk about the
champen the champen with the
fermentation in the bottle has a totally
different um aromatic and organic
profile so we’re talking about two
different wines completely and it’s
beautiful because I mean many people
think that Lambrusco is just a very easy
wine instead I mean it’s very easy to to
drink and that’s a positive selling
point in my opinion but the Lambrusco
grape and the Lambrusco Ward is an
extremely let me say complicated word
but in a good in a good sense no the
complexity of the Lambrusco is extremely
positive and that’s why we have
different varieties and different
methods to produce Lambrusco got it and
you talked also and thank you for
reminding me doing the refresher with
the Lambrusco grape there’s different
strains there’s four or five that you
usually work with so 100 years ago yes
uh we had more than 50 wow biotypes or
varieties of Lambrusco okay you know in
Italy we love the complicated yes you do
thanks God the farmers decided just to
develop around 10 varieties but the four
most known varieties are lambur sorbara
that is the most elegant variety sorbara
doesn’t have a full body structure but
very high acidity okay um then at the
opposite we have Gras parosa very tinic
low acidity in the middle we have marani
that is very similar to the sorbara and
salamino that is the variety of our
concerto that is the most Balan Variety
in the lusco family so different Organo
characteristics different soils where
they are cultivated so we can talk about
proper Tero for every single uh variety
H but one common characteristic the
drinkability and the fact that Lambrusco
varieties with all the differences are
always a very gastronomic you know and
versatile wine that is lamusu got it
okay all right so I think we’ve laid the
foundation yes so maybe we could do you
want to now start talking about the tank
SL marotti me method so the tank method
as I explained also before quickly is
the most common method in the in the Pro
does that Pro does Cava is more champen
no but it’s a short short short champen
like few months so very quickly in Italy
we have prco Lambrusco and Moscato that
are made with Sharma method okay and
they are ferment Ed in the tank okay so
the tanks can be very small or very very
huge if we are talking about very
Industrial Products tank is very uh
useful because in few months you can get
the perfect and very fresh wine so in
our land we started to buy then to
receive the tanks uh around 1955 1960
Med CH our Winery was one of the first
wineries that introduced the steel tank
in Italy oh wow okay like my grandfather
that was you know a very Innovative guy
so when he discovered this method he
decided to yeah we have to start to do
uh lamb Brusco also with using steel
tank and with the Sharma method because
he thought that was very safe because
until that moment all the producers were
used to produce lamb Brusco using the
ancestral the PED method right so
fermenting the Lambrusco in the bottle
and at the end of the fermentation when
the wine became came totally dry we
didn’t remove the from the bottle so the
ancestral is called ancestral that in
Italian means old right right because
that was the first method of production
H then few producers when understood the
potential of the tank and then and they
understood how smart was making Alam
Brusco using the tank they decided to
stop making ancestral method and they
started to do just steel tank method
Okay so sharmat
sh then just in the last period
producers are starting to coming back to
the origin and to try to do again the
petnat or the ancestral method so we can
say that now the steel tank meod so the
Sharma method is the most common because
it’s easier sure very safe in terms of
internal pressure it can preserve
perfectly all the characteristics that
are from the grape that’s very important
and it’s fast it’s quick fast okay in
one month you could have the final
product then if you decide to do a high
quality Sharma method you can keep the
fermentation longer as our work coner
for six months but it’s fast okay okay
so it’s perfect for a for a winery and
it’s extremely safe and extremely smart
let’s let’s call it this yeah and it
sounds like you can be a lot more
precise and have more control over the
final product because there’s nothing
left to the imagination of nature
absolutely
absolutely so this is helpful because
most people probably don’t really
understand why a champagne or a
champagne method wine cost so much more
so part of it is that charmont method is
quicker so when you can make things
quicker generally the price is going to
be less absolutely and it sounds like
it’s a simpler process and a little so
that’s part of the reason why prco is a
lot less money than say a a champag for
example absolutely you’re right like if
you want I can explain the the champen
so yeah please we can we can see the
differences in terms of price great so
we said that the charmat it’s very quick
because we do this uh fermentation in
the tank where the East literally eat
the sugars that are in the Mast right
with the added East that usually are
selected East and in few weeks months
let’s say you have the final product for
the champen you have to do a first
fermentation in a tank where you
transform the grape ju so the m in a
still and dry wine so you’re making wine
first first exactly and this
fermentation us usually last few weeks
okay okay so we can say that can last
also one month so you get a steel and
totally dry with zero grams of sugar
wine after that what you have to add is
called in France because you know in the
wine business we just use everything is
French is French unfortunately the
liquid that
so basically we add sugars and East to
the wine okay we add a good percentage
of this liage and we add to the wine and
we put the wine with the liage in the
bottle where we will have the second
fermentation what does it happen in the
second fermentation we are basically
making from a steel and dry wine a
sparkling wine so we are creating the
CO2 in the bottle directly in the bottle
this process last for the Italian wines
if you want to call it methodo classical
champen method at least one year one
year 12 months hold on back up for a
second how do you get the sugar the lior
Tage how do you get that into the bottle
so basically it’s while you bottle the
wine for the second fermentation you are
allowed to add a percentage that you
have to calculate perfectly of the liid
theage okay I try to make it easy
because it’s very technical yeah right
but to develop one atmosphere we talk
before about the internal pressure sure
we need six gram of liter of sugar okay
at the end of the
fermentation uh we want to achieve six
atmospheres got it okay so six
atmospheres we need 24 G of liter of
sugars why because we said that every
four gram of liter of sugar we develop
one atmosphere one bar okay so four per
six that is the final atmosphere that we
want to achieve is 24 grams of liter of
sugar that we have to add in the LI
theage okay so producers if they want to
make a champag method they have to add
to the Ste and dry wine exactly 2 24 G
of liter of sugar okay got it this is
very important because then what what
happen in the bottle the East that are
in the lior theage they literally eat
the sugars the 24 gram of lit sugar and
they develop exactly six atmospheres
inside of the bottle that will be the
final pressure of the uh wine made using
champag or champagne method got and in
the lambur land we can do this it’s a
very small percentage of the production
but is what is now considered extremely
cool and fancy especially in the Italian
market you can easily find lamb Brusco
made with champen method usually a rosé
in a very good fine dining restaurant
list at the buy the glass in a very nice
Michelin star restaurants in Milan in
Bologna in tan in Rome and it’s becoming
very very popular why because you have
to know and just few people knows this
but that Lambrusco is probably the only
grape Variety in Italy that in every
single vintage has the same pH acidity
of the champagne area oh so it TOS
perfectly to make a champagne methal huh
that’s one of in my opinion a big
selling point and one of our champag was
method called unique 33 months of second
fermentation in the bottle Rosé made
using Alan Brusco variety is Just
landing in the US wow all right that’s
awesome what is it called it’s called
unique unique yes because it’s Unique
because it’s pretty unique because when
we started to make this wine we were one
of the few Lambrusco producers using
this method okay champen and we think
that um it’s an extremely unique wine
because you have the characteristics of
Lambrusco so it’s an extremely versatile
and gastronomic wine but in the same
time you will find the elegance and this
amazing parage and acidity typical of
the champen methods okay it’s fully
sparkling just like a champagne exactly
all right did we skip a step when we
were talking about the traditional
method so you put the you put the liquid
the Tage in there yes isn’t there a
point where something has to come out
and you add sugar or something or that
was already done no no no no you’re
right so you add the liage and you start
the second fermentation in the bottle as
I said before in Italy we have to do at
least 12 months of second fermentation
in the bottle okay then what happened
when the producer decide that the
fermentation is completely over after
after 20 24 some producers you know do
also 10 years of second fermentation the
bottle it can last also forever if a
producer decide to make a very
particular wine you know but after that
moment we have to consider that this
bottle is actually in an horizontal
position closed with a crown cap right
with the East inside so when the
producer decide to release the wine
there is a technical process called
doraman what is the doraman is the
moment when the producers decide to
remove the yeast from the bottle so to
clear the wine that is a very important
moment and it can last for a few weeks
because from the horizontal position
that is you know the the classic
position of the bottle during the
fermentation laying down yeah exactly so
the producer must bring all the inside
of the bottle to the crown cap why
because it’s important that all the all
the sediments that are in the bottle are
attached to the crown cap oh okay so
they all go back up to the cap exactly
and the crown cap for listener doesn’t
know what we’re talking about it’s it’s
like on a on a beer bottle that you have
to like flip off with the battle cup
battle Yeah okay what the producer do
during the dean process is basically to
freeze the crown cap okay and to remove
the crown cap with inside all the
sediments and all the East that all
comes out with the cap they all comes
out with a cap and at that point the
wine will be totally dry why because all
the yeast have eaten all the sugars that
were inside of the bottle so the
producer can decide of champagne the
producer of champagne or the producer of
Lambrusco in this case can decide to let
the wine completely dry so usually it’s
called nure or pad for the Italian wines
okay or or to add a level of the sugar
if the producer decide to add a level of
the sugar the producer will add what is
called
lied okay usually this is a private
recipe for every single producer okay so
the producer will add a small amount of
the wine with inside a level a specific
level of the sugar okay so just in that
moment the producer of champagne method
will add the sugar to the wine and the
wine can become an extra brute with a
very small amount of sugar a brute with
a bit with a little bit higher level of
the sugar or a demac for example if you
want a higher level of the sugar in
France and in Italy we have different
regulations so it can become a little
bit difficult for the consumers to
understand but what is important to know
is that the producer decides in this in
that moment exactly how to make the
dosage in terms of the sugar at that
moment
after the producer added the sugar with
the lior theed the producer will close
the bottle with the classic mushroom
cork that we are used to open opening a
bottle of champagne or in our case of L
Brusco okay so the thing that’s always
fascinated me is how that whole process
and again another French word de gormont
right exactly how do you take the cap
off put the sugar in put the cork how do
you do all that before all all the
bubbles go out so it’s a very hard to
explain in a podcast that is not that is
not a video podcast so nowadays we are
lucky because there are machines that
are basically taking care of the world
process okay so is not handmade anymore
like it was in the like 50 years ago
okay so thanks God there is um this
machine that is closed actually that
takes care of the gaman adding the lied
and then immediately
with a mushroom cor so it happens in
like 5 Seconds okay so let’s say 10
seconds 15 second maximum so it’s very
very quick it depends also from the
technology that you have in the seller
but is extremely safe nowadays and what
is beautiful is that with that
particular machine you can add exactly
the right amount of lied so adding the
exact and right amount of sugar because
in the past was producer were used to
make it you know like handmade so it was
a little bit harder and consistent
probably from bottom to bottom exactly
you know the consistency especially if
we talk about champas method it’s very
important so we we must do as wine
producers consistency year after year
vintage after vintage but also in the
same vintage you know all the bottles
should be more or less the same that’s
very important also to respect the
consumers that are buying our wines so
yeah there there is some romance to
making wine by hand and and manually but
at the end of the day machines are kind
of helpful in making sure that every
bottle tastes the same absolutely and
when we talk about technology we’re not
talking about chemistry it’s a totally
different stuff I Am pro technology
because technology helps the work of the
man and sometime machine machineries and
Technology are better than men itself so
something is the technology that help a
natural process another point is
chemistry so adding uh things that are
not natural you know people sometime are
confused about the difference of
technology and chemistry th these two
are completely different St chemistry
make industrial wines technology helps
the producer to preserve the work that
the producer have done in the vineyard
okay so technology help us to preserve
the organ characteristics of the grape
that we just got from The Vineyards okay
this is very important yeah so
difference between technology and
chemistry absolutely and I explained you
the champas method and you can easily
understand how harder and longer is than
a Sharma method that we explained before
so coming back to your point the
difference in terms of price is
basically explained with the time and
with all the processes that for a
champen method
I mean we need to do and we need to take
care for several several months and
years sometime and you know the and the
irony is that it takes more time takes
more resources takes more money to make
the champagne method and then they put a
tax on it on top of it yes so we have
two not problems but but two more points
that help to make this wine H more
expens I don’t know if it’s going to
help but is a
just all right so let’s really quickly
so you mentioned the new wine unique how
long does that ferment and how long do
you do the DOR Mountain all that whole
yes it’s 33 months of second
fermentation in the bottle wow so we are
talking about something very unique
almost three years almost three years
wow exactly so the wine that uh is
coming in the US soon will be 2021
vintage so we can actually taste a wine
Alam Brusco that was produced like three
years ago and this is another key of
interpretation of reading the lam Brusco
you know it’s not just an easy fresh
wine that you have to consume and drink
in the same vintage of production but
it’s something that we can age as well
and you will see it’s completely fresh
in this moment so don’t ask me the Aging
potential because we we have to see we
don’t know but we are pretty confident
because this is not the first vintage
that we make with a unique wine with the
champen method so we are pretty conf
confident that due to the very low PH so
the high acidity and due to the method
we can drink this wine also in the next
years and this is beautiful for lamb
Brusco that’s exciting yeah so is it a
brute it’s brute the dosage is around
five grams of liter so it’s very dry
it’s very dry and also you have to
consider the acidity as I said is very
very high similar in every single
vintage to the champagne yeah it sounds
very similar to a brute champagne yes so
brute Champagnes a lot of them don’t
come out for 10 years will you be
working on one that maybe you’ll release
in 10 years uh let’s see um we have
several projects in our mind to make
also like a Reserva of this wine it
would be beautiful we are launching this
wine all over the world so before we
want to explain to the consumers that
lamb Brusco can be produced also with
the champion method then we will do many
experiments you know especially for wine
lovers that want to try something
different where we will try to keep the
second fermentation even longer
absolutely we’re going to have to
educate the consumer this is going to be
an interesting and fun thing yes before
you ask me about uh what are you doing
in your job you know are you just eating
and drinking all the time or you’re
doing something h i mean education is
probably the biggest part of my job
because to the all the listeners in this
moment you should listen the first
episode that we missed a few I don’t
remember months or years year ago but uh
in in that episode we explain about the
history of Lambrusco that had an
unbelievable commercial success in the
80s then it went very down the image has
been destroyed so what my family tried
to do the last 30 years is exactly to
educate the consumers to what is the
real Lambrusco perfect yeah and we’ll
we’ll put that in the show notes the
other episode let’s go away from
technology yes and let’s go to your P
project okay the ancestral method which
which you said was the original method I
I had no idea that that was the first
Spark when that’s going back hundreds of
years right exactly let’s consider that
Med CH I’m represent the fifth
generation fifth yeah it’s a lot of
years a lot of years 134 wow so when my
great grandfather started his activity
he was a restorator first but um he
decided to make wine uh also because at
the time the wine business was growing a
lot because police didn’t make any
alcohol test in Italy so the trend was
extremely positive so he saw that and he
started to make wine which wine
Lambrusco because was our autocal
variety and uh the first method of
production that the founder of Med CH
decided to to use to make lamb Brusco
was the ancestral method what we call
ancestral or pet nut method that now is
becoming very very popular in the very
trendy very trendy especially in the
more hipster areas like hipsters
Brooklyn Seattle Portland San Francisco
Vancouver you know in many in many wine
capitals all over the world I have to
say but then as I said before in the 60s
we started to make wines just using
charmat sure why because pet nut was
fermented in the bottle and at the end
of the fermentation we didn’t do the the
gaman we didn’t remove the so we were
used to leave the East inside but at the
time we didn’t have the technology right
so many bottles could explode so it
wasn’t explode yes so like many bottles
of
champagne but because I mean the the the
wine making knowledge in 1945 1950 you
know it wasn’t so developed like
nowadays we didn’t have the technology
as we said before sure so it wasn’t safe
sharmat was much more was safer and
easier also no we said before we was
marter so many producer decided to stop
making petn ancestral Med so that’s why
when I just entered in the winery in
2017 actually after my studies at the
univ cities I wanted to come back to the
origin why if it didn’t work before if
it was dangerous the botles were
exploding what were you thinking because
for two points because now it’s totally
safe because we have the technology so
now you know you you’ve learned more
absolutely so now we never we never seen
our bottle exploded thanks God in in the
last and there is no risk zero okay 0%
because we exactly know how the residual
of sugar must be before to do the second
fermentation now I’m going to explain
how Pat is made but so the first point
is that now is completely safe and the
second point is because now there is a
huge trend of petnat yes I mean we are
not talking about million of bottles but
for the brand awareness it’s an
extremely positive method because
especially some wine lovers are
searching these kind of wines and they
are becoming very popular so we started
in 2017 making 3,000 bottles it was a
total bet for us yeah nowadays with the
Vintage 2022 that is now on the market
and available here in the US U we are
doing 19,000 bottles oh boy it’s still a
small project but you know is growing
year after year year after year we want
to keep it small as a project but we
have the potential to to arrive to
around 30,000 bottles that will not be
like a huge line or wine but very
important for the brand awareness and to
bring that wine in the right places you
know good wine bars good restaurants to
try to explain that Lambrusco can be
produced also with this method right H
how is this method made quickly first
fermentation in the tank we do uh steel
wine and here there are two approach to
the pet nut okay the real ancestral was
made like this you do this first
fermentation and you arrive to have
around 10 grams of liter of sugar
and then with that exact amount of liter
of sugar and with the indigenous yeast
that were inside of the grape juwi you
put the wine inside of the bottle to end
the fermentation and to develop the
bubbles in the bottle the bottle is
closed with crum cap and at the end of
the fermentation when the wine becomes
totally dry you just release the wine in
the market without doing any the Goram
man so leaving the E inside of the
bottle so the sediment is going to be at
the bottom of the bottle if it’s thin up
exactly and it’s going to be pretty dry
because you didn’t add any dry exactly
because we didn’t add any sugar and the
fermentation arrived to that this was
how the wine was made in the past okay
and that also nowadays some producers of
ancestral are doing then there is a
second way to make a pet nut that is the
way that we decided to use so we do a
completely dry wine during the first
fermentation so we don’t bring the wine
to 10 G of liter but to zero grams of
liter of sugar during the first
fermentation then what we do is similar
to the champag method so we add the same
Mast of the same grape with a still
higher level of the sugar and we
calculate to add exactly 10 G of liter
of sugar so we basically add
a it’s like a p the C okay okay so we
help the wine that became totally dry
during the first fermentation
to do the second fermentation in the
bottle with this add natural Mast that
is basically the same Mast that we used
before of the of the first fermentation
okay okay so we use the indigenous East
but we use it adding the Mast before the
fermentation then the fermentation
usually last one month two month in the
bottle so it’s pretty quick because we
just have 10 grams of liter of sugar
it’s not like the champagne where we
entered in the bottle with 24 grams of
liter of sugar as I said before I know
it’s a little bit technical but I’m just
trying to explain that’s I how how it
works and then we do this second
fermentation in the bottle and as the
real ancestral method we close it with
the crown cap and when the fermentation
is over so when the East have eaten all
the sugars inside of the bottle we
basically release the wine in the market
and we sell it like a totally dry and
pnut Method amazing so the result is to
have especially with the lusco that is
very high in acidity and extremely
refreshing and extremely drinkable and
an extremely food friendly wine yeah I
was just going to say with acidity like
that you could probably have a steak
with it right absolutely yes or
something fried like a or fried chicken
amazing or like the cured meats that
come from Emilia Roma from my region
well that’s that’s the definite yeah I’m
hungry right
now we she get some salami or something
Mortadella Mortadella exactly okay so oh
one more thing so petet is that
considered natural wine I mean it’s hard
because we we don’t have a specific
there’s no definition for of natural
wine I think is not the method that make
a wine natural but I think is the
philosophy of the producer right we can
consider our pnut called fermento a sort
of natural wine because we try to work
in an organic way the vineyard is is a
small production okay H the me
is can be related to the natural wine
movement so we can consider fermento as
a natural wine but it’s very important
to say that also for this wine we use
the technology how we keep the
temperature very low during all the
single phase of the production this
technology help us this philosophy helps
us to try to avoid any single bad Aromas
that could be developed making a petn
method so I think that our fermento is
an extremely clean pnut with an
extremely beautiful acidity and you can
really taste the variety that for the
fermento for our pnut is sorbara lamb
sorbara and in that wine you can really
understand what is sorbara that I think
should be the definition of a natural
wine so to feel to taste the grape yeah
and it it’s a light colored wine but it
has a lot of lot of flavor it’s is
really rich
thank you so much yeah that’s delicious
um okay that that’s something I wanted
to get out there because a lot of people
talk about natural wine and I’ve had
what some people call natural wine and
the bottles seem to be very inconsistent
but fermento is consistent every bottle
and that’s thanks to the technology that
you use yeah thank you so much for this
I mean it’s very important to say that
it’s consistent in the same vintage
usually the bottles are the same from
the same vintage but you can see a lot
of differences between the vintages this
is very important because I love to show
our terar at its best you know and every
vintage is very different especially
with the climate changes yes that we
have to face right now you can see a lot
of differences between the 22 the 2021
the 2020 the 2019 is was completely
different and this is beautiful in my
opinion also because those wines as they
are extremely rich in acidity they can
age at the same time so I recently tast
the first vintage the 2017 was totally
perfect without any sign of oxidation
and you can still see the differences
between 2017 for example in 2022 wow
yeah so fermento is most enjoyable when
it’s released but it can actually sit
down for a year too it’s it’s fine for
many years we just don’t see any
Evolution like we can see on aolo or on
a burgundy okay we don’t see evolution
in terms of profile the wine just lose
the fruity aroma but the acidity is
still perfect it’s still vibrant may I
say vibrant can you understand vibrant
sure um and I think this is a the
characteristic that we search in the
lusco and we can still see the vibrant
notes also in the oldest vintage I mean
we didn’t start to make this wine 25
years ago but in 2017 and I just can
tell that the 2017 is still perfectly
fresh wow that’s amazing yeah thank you
so much how did your father feel about
this project when you first started when
I first started he said no no way but
not my father my father is very is very
Dynamic my grandfather that is pretty
conser conservative H he just told me
why do we have to do a wine like my
father was used to make I mean we have
now you know the steel tank it’s so easy
and it’s so good the wine and I told and
I told him look uh no no we say in
Italian to say Granda believe me like
now there is a huge Trend in the market
we can do a very good one
let’s start with a small production yeah
and uh we have a beautiful relationship
so it trust me and we started with a
small production and then I mean the
sales were very positive so that’s why
we increase year after year the
production and nowadays we are making
19,000 bottles right and I think it’s a
wine that became part of our portfolio
and now is available in in Michel and
star restaurants in very cool natural
wine bars and I mean it’s a very
positive way to show Med and to show the
all the shades I think is theed word
lusco yeah definitely anyway it’s it’s
nice that you took a piece of history
and you’re bringing it Forward yes
absolutely oh one last thing your wines
are all organic are they not yes they
are this is another thing that I try to
bring in the company to to do this big
project on the sustainability in 2021 we
presented a project called generation
2021 it’s a 10 years
longterm project to try to make medure
the world company completely sustainable
and one of the part of the
sustainability just one because
sustainability is huge we don’t have the
time to to we should do an episode just
on sustainability maybe that’ll be the
next one next year organic vtic culture
is one important part of the
sustainability for a winery so in 2017
when I entered in the winery we started
to do the conversion do you say that yes
conversion from the like legally is the
conventional agure even if I really hate
that word because we we were
conventional at the time to legally and
officially organic Agriculture and in
2020 we became 100% organic all our five
Estates that we own that my family owns
are completely organic great all right
congratulations on that thank you Joe
changing all kinds of things there not
changing a lot I think I entered
respecting the past but we have to see
you know we have to be contemporary and
we have to see the future so maybe the
word is advancing yes progressing
advancing exactly exactly great
alisandra this was wonderful I feel like
I got a whole class on sparkling wine in
lisco I hope it’s uh helpful for all the
people that listen us and I mean I’m
here when you want thank you very much
thank you so much
Joe thanks so much for listening to my
conversation with alesandro meichi if
you haven’t already heard it go back to
episode 23 Italy’s friendliest wine in
which allesandro explains all you need
to know about Lambrusco for this episode
there were a lot of technical terms so
in the show notes there is a link to a
glossery of all those terms and their
meanings by the way one of the wines we
talked about today was fermento which is
alesandro’s Pet Project see what I did
there pet as in petnet that’s the type
of wine it is it’s the wine made in the
ancestral method or pet net if you would
like to try that wine you can buy it
wine 365.com slbbl again that’s wine
365.com
slbbl and because you listened all the
way to the end of this episode I have a
special gift for you put in the discount
code bubbles 24 for 15% off your entire
order whether there’s fermento in your
cart or not though I strongly suggest
you put at least one bottle in there
because the wine is truly amazing again
go to wine 365.com
slbbl and use the code bubbles2 4 for
15% off your entire order if you’re
driving or you’re on the elliptical no
worries the link and the code are in the
show notes I’ll be back again in about 2
weeks in the meantime remember wine is
food it comes from a place enjoy it
responsibly