Forgotten Grapes Wine Club founder Chris Kern and wine writer and partner Allison Levine are joined by VeroVino owner Sheila Donohue for an enthralling discussion about how a native New Yorker makes her way to Italy, how someone with a career in finance drops everything to become an Italian wine importer, and how the Italian wine importer ends up in California. Plus, a tasting of five of her stand-out selections.
Wines Tasted:2021 Braschi Monte Sasso Famoso, Rubicone Famoso IGT
2021 Domus Hortae Kia Ros Nero di Troia Rosato, Puglia IGP
2021 Febo Montepulciano d’Abruzzo DOC
2020 Aldo Clerico Langhe Nebbiolo DOC
2021 Ivaldi Dario “Susbel” Brachetto d’Acqui DOCG
all right welcome everybody to our May
virtual tasting for the Forgotten grapes
wine club with uh I guess we’ll call her
the the Veno Vero Vero Veno excuse me
Vero Veno impressario inard owner owner
operator boss girl boss so many titles
for Sheila donu uh who Allison will be
introducing us to in just a minute
before that uh just a little bit of
housekeeping as always uh of course we
love to hear from you uh we are going to
mute everybody during the discussion so
if you’ve got any questions for Sheila
any comments any food pairings whatever
it might be throw those into the chat
and aliceon and I will be monitoring
those and throw them in as needed um
probably all got an email from me today
uh I know you got those of you that are
on Alice’s list got one earlier this
week uh about the festival forgotten
grapes uh we know some of you have
already signed up for it we are so
looking forward to seeing you on June
29th Saturday June 29th at Frankie La uh
in Downtown LA in the arts district of
downtown LA um if you are interested we
are about uh twoth thirds of the way
pre-sold on the VIP tickets so we only
have a small amount of those left
they’re going pretty quickly uh and then
secondly the general admission tickets
the early bird uh expires on May 15 so
if you’re interested in getting your
early bird ticket saving the 10 bucks
getting your early bird ticket for just
49 bucks definitely visit Festival of
Forgotten grapes. comom now uh I know
Allison can talk about this we’ve added
a couple of new wineries on to it uh
seems like we’re getting one or two
every week which is pretty cool so we’ve
got a nice uh a nice round group I think
I counted I think we’re up to I think
we’re I think we’re at 5050 unique
forgotten grape Rials that are going to
be available and I suspect as we get
more the wines in that number will only
increase which I’m really looking
forward to so great to have so many
varieties yes and
varieties but um yeah we’re up to 34
Wineries and um and um it’s G to be
great so tell your friends if you’ve
already bought your tickets tell other
friends to come it’s going to be a fun
event a unique event and
yeah and there will
be we’ve got uh two food vendors who are
going to be there uh boy blue La who
does um pizzas I believe Gourmet pizzas
uh woodf fired Gourmet pizzas right
there and then GAO bites which is an
Argentine style sandwich uh restaurant
which I’m really looking forward to
trying them out so it should be a lot of
fun make sure you get your tickets tell
your friends spread the word we love to
see you at the festival of Forgotten
grapes okay with that in mind Allison
tell us who we are chatting with tonight
we um I’m really excited to have my
friend Sheila because she is my friend
we met um boy uh
2019 um when I was doing an event called
effervescence a big sparkling wine
festival and Sheila is a big sparkling
wine fan so she came as an attendee to
the event uh some of the partners in it
she was friends with so we met and
became friends and then little did we
know we were going to be in the benal
international academy course together to
try to get our certifications in Italian
wine let me clarify she passed I did not
um the trick to passing that test is not
just knowing Italian wine or speaking
Italian wine but really knowing it and
living there and while you’re going to
hear Sheila’s American accent she spends
half her time living in bolognia Italy
and that’s where she fell in love with
wine and can tell us a little more about
her story but she splits her time
between Ventura County where verino is
based out of and um Italy where she’s
able to Source all these wonderful gems
small producers um really focused
on the word I hate the most but in the
best ways natural wine so very minimal
intervention producers producers who are
not doing additives and herbicides but
biodynamic and organic and um hand
handmade wines to craft what we’re going
to taste today so Sheila Welcome to the
the Forgotten grapes wine club we are
super excited because most of these are
forgotten grapes like our first wine
foso um before we get into that we
always ask people a question at the
beginning which is what is um the most
memorable wine you you’ve drunk what was
that aha moment for you and you’re gonna
have to unmute
yourself oh okay hi everyone yeah thanks
uh Allison and Chris for involving me um
I actually started my company for this
reason to have uh people enjoy the
discovery of new uh new grapes and new
new wines they may have not tried before
and also from um small producers meaning
people that are farming their own land
and uh and making a product that uh uh
in which they’re thinking of their land
and tradition in making it they’re not
thinking about the market that’s going
to be sold to they’re thinking they’re
thinking of the place where where they
are and um and speaking of which I when
I thought about this question um uh I
um um I I must say that uh the one of
the wines that stands out is uh are are
wines from um from this um woman wine
maker in Tuscany that Allison actually
met in March because she was V visiting
California um her name is Antonella
manuli of LA
malosa and she when I went to visit her
at her Winery Mama tusin which is like
the wild west of Tuscany um with her was
her H former colleague uh Lorenzo Corino
whose F family is now Sixth Generation
Um making wine in pedmont Italy and and
and both of them were just very prolific
uh inspirational people and um and
honestly um I was just enthralled when I
visited their uh their their um really
their Vineyards that that’s what really
left the impression on me and um and um
I mean sure you know they’re organic and
biod dnamic and all this kind of stuff
but it was just the the the place that
um the nature around me that that uh I
still remember to this day the smells of
of the
vineyard and um and and
really then they invited invited me to
lunch which is great and and then I
finally tasted their wine and it was
that sort of that all that you know
buildup and then and the wines were just
delicious so um I think that um uh you
know it’s like you remember a wine from
from the whole experience to me at least
the whole experience that you know
really made you uh that kind of like
enveloped you while while in this case I
was trying the wine and actually I’m
gonna be visiting her next week so oh my
goodness and she makes um an olive oil
that’s like rated one of the best olive
oils in Italy or in the world in Italy
in Italy super high phenolics and
everything and Sheila also Imports that
so you can always buy it directly from
her very nice but um but I’m gonna hand
it over to Chris um to ask the next
questions but um I will say Chris you’re
gonna have to ask Sheila at some point
how she got into wine because wine is a
new thing for
her Sheila I hear wine is a new thing
for you how did you get into
why um so it’s certainly wasn’t my
family and growing up
um and uh I mean not just because I’m
100% Irish but just my my parents like
you know they just didn’t drink wine it
wasn’t part of the culture of me growing
the millanes Donna
[Laughter]
Hughes so uh I did uh um have uh
actually had a an Italian American
boyfriend
when I was in my mid-30s um this is
while I was still in uh in I’m I grew up
in the New York area so that’s where I
was and uh and he was um I don’t know
like second generation maybe so he
impressed upon me some of the aspects of
the the culture of like real Italian not
Italian American and you know and also
starting to appreciate some you know
wine in general so suppose the first
wines I I really um started to
appreciate happened to be um happened to
be Italian wines but you know it wasn’t
um and all this time um I was working in
um in fintech and banking technology
that was um my career for 30 years and
that’s what brought me to bolognia Italy
in
2001 and um
and believe it or not um so I wanted me
meeting my husband in bolognia he has uh
his family had had a a three generation
Bakery so he was really tied to bolognia
and I I honestly wanted to come back to
America um and but I couldn’t so I’m
like all right you know I’m stuck in
Italy what am I gonna do uh aside from
work um and and I decided to pursue a um
a suo course because at that point I
knew I I I I liked one I likeed food and
I just wanted to learn more and and so
that that’s what got me in into wine as
as a hobby and then fast forward to 2017
I had a year of sabatical when um I
could do anything you know I wanted to
um uh although I wasn’t necessarily
thinking of getting into wine certainly
banking technology was much more is much
more lucrative um but I you know I was
really following my passion and
especially passion of of small farmer
Artisans that um whose wines born in the
US so that was sort of the the catch I
found out that um that most of the
producers I knew that weren’t in the US
so I thought you know why not start a
company that’s all about Discovery
discovery of new new wines and and olive
oils but that are also authentically
made was there was there one wine or
Winery in particular because I find a
lot of the importers that I talk to
um it feels like they’ve got one
particular wine or a story with a wine
maker who was kind of the impetus to get
them to bring that wine to the United
States and then they could see oh I’ve
got to fill a uh you know I’ve got to
fill a containership with uh with wine
so let me go find other
producers no it really was just the
variety you know I mean I love I just
love variety I love um Variety in food I
love trying different things so from the
from the beginning the the idea was to
have as diverse you know diverse
selection as possible and in fact if
anything these are small production
wines so there there’s a scarcity Factor
so the idea is to kind of switch it up
and then um if one
wine runs out then to introduce another
one yeah I definitely want to talk about
you know the the logistics of becoming
an importer but before that uh we have
to talk about the you know Mont saso the
Brasi uh Famoso here which you know is a
forgotten Grape Wine that I have never
had before so I believe according to my
list this is 243 on my list of Forgotten
grape varietals that I have tasted um
and what I’m also you said wait you said
it was number 243 out of how many no
it’s I mean oh oh just that you’ve
gotten to in your life that I have
tasted that I have like identified and
tasted on my list of my ongoing running
list of Forgotten grapes that I have
tasted this is to um what uh what I’m
most impressed with is the fact that if
you type in Famoso grape into the Google
machines these days the Vero website is
the first entry right there talking
about your entry about the foso gra even
ahead of wikkipedia and Jan Robinson so
congratulations on that you know you are
you are the bonafide Tech expert on the
foso grape so uh walk us through this
grape because it’s got just an
incredible story which I’ve I’ve had
some Italian grapes that have very
similar stories um but this one is f
Fantastical and that Mont Sasso is real
important designation line right so when
uh so first of all barasi is not far
from my home um I live in bolognia which
is the region called Amilia Romania and
Amilia ROM
uh which is this re rectangular uh
region just north of
Florence um whereby the um the E western
part is sort of close to Milan and the
eastern part borders the Adriatic Sea
and um and it’s actually made up of of
two two cultures that were just you know
they just kind of group them together
you know politically if you will into
the same region and um so bolog is
actually in Amelia so that’s the western
part and and this uh wine is from
Romania which is the eastern part um
barasi is a is a producer uh that’s very
um very historic very tradition um it’s
known as a very traditional Romano
Winery um this life is like this
beautiful if you remember the film that
won um a uh bini
so his wife who’s in that film she’s a
braski so actually is that’s a fun
fact luchana braski is that correct or
I’m trying you probably have to Google
it but she
defin for our for for our purposes she’s
luchana Brasi
okay and so uh so anyway the these two
romanoli so two guys from Romania who
just love wine uh David venzo they
decided to purchase the the winery from
the braski family this was maybe
probably going on 20 years now and uh
and then I I met I met David uh before I
started my company it was actually
during that year of sabatical that I was
talking about and um so I went to his
Winery and in Roman Romania there’s
there’s two two grapes that most people
associate with Romania um the white is
is albana it’s a native grape from from
Romania um and it was actually another
little fun fact it was the first
docg um for a white wine in in Italy and
and and also Roman is known for sanjab
which um you know most people associate
uh sanes with Tuscany but technically
they say the origin of the grape is in
Romania anyway so when I was with David
and he was pouring you know different
wines he he had this like um blend white
wine blend I think it was Al albana and
um and foso and so I asked him what the
grapes
were and and what PE my curiosity was
was
foso and and he’s like oh you want to
taste a you know 100% fosa wine and I’m
like yes and uh and that’s what that’s
what this this wine is what’s
interesting is he wasn’t even going to
pour it for me it wasn’t until I asked
him about it that you know that he
poured it and so I found it you know
really exciting I love to try a grape
that I never tried before um it it’s
also easy to uh say and it actually
means famous in in you know in
Italian um
and I decided to import it it wasn’t
until then I was Googling and uh and
then I I found um you know I found this
uh you know short article on the genis
Robinson um website that uh you know
mentions that after they came out with
their their book um they uh you know
they discovered Foo after so uh the
story of the grape that the rediscovery
of the grape is this farmer
montalti saw these grapes in his
Vineyard he he was making wine from them
but he didn’t know what they were and he
went to the University of bolognia and
found out that he discovered a grape
that they thought was extinct and that’s
and that’s what this wine is and braski
gets their grapes from the original
Vineyard yeah I think that’s what what
what I took away from this article was
that the the monter Roso was the
original Vineyard those lost grapes that
had been just sitting there for decades
if not a century and you know was kind
of overgrown and this farmer came and
discovered them and then the gentleman
behind Broski and I don’t remember if it
was the original brasis or these
gentlemen but they basically used those
cuting and planted it and have basically
carried on the line of that that
original Mont
Sasso lineage
yeah yeah it’s it’s fantastic you know
it’s got such that classic Italian dry
white profile like
great acidity real bright a little
minerality lots of lemon a little bit of
lime note on this but it’s so refreshing
and with that amount of acidity it’s
super easy to drink I mean it’s not uh
kind of that that raging high acidity uh
just so well balanced yeah it’s
interesting because when I read about
the grape when I was reading about it as
well it said that it it it has a fruity
and floral nose similar to
Moscato and so I was sort of
anticipating something something a
little more floral that the grape has
but this one it has that great
minerality and acidity it’s just it’s
just shock it you know but it also has
some nice body and texture to hold up
to yeah it’s and we’re hearing we’re
hearing in the chat this you know pairs
so well with whether it’s vegan shrimp
whether it’s uh you know non-vegan
shrimp uh lemon Capers all sorts of
things um
uh Genie and Mike said this goes
fantastic with a Alo oio did I pronounce
that correctly you did oh wow that’s
first time for everything excellent it’s
a great it’s a great varietal to go with
your alio
aolo um no this is this is a a wonderful
wine um and what I’m what I’m most
impressed with like especially living
here in Pasa Robel we’re we’re going
through a phase now where a lot the
original wineries original wine makers
are starting to get to retirement age
their kids don’t want to take over their
properties are being sold and the you
know new owners are basically
immediately changing the name um and
forgetting the history behind it but it
sounds like David day and uh was it
Vincenzo VZ yeah they you know they
bought this property but have kept the
the braski name going which I think is
is so important and and you High into
that
history yeah absolutely um no this is a
beautiful wine um so we have some
pairings Sheila what would you what do
you recommend pairing this with what are
what are some of your normal pairings
that you think about with this one yeah
I mean the first thing that comes to
mind would be uh spaghetti and clams um
spaghetti Kong is is uh you know how the
recipe that I it’s one of the first
recipes actually I learned when I um
when I went to Italy uh but the white
sauce not the red
sauce okay nice the right
way Manhattan clam Chow not that New
England
crap nice but I just that here here in
Ventura I’ve gone been going to the
farmers market and um and I’ve been
learning about the different citrus
fruits that you have here I’m I’m from
New York and you know and and so I uh uh
you know I kind of asked the the farmers
about them and this uh this wine the uh
the Soso the sort of the the uh in the
back of the palette if you will um I get
Mexican lime you guys know Mexican lime
it’s kind of yeah it’s tart but also you
know juicy
yes I’ve had a lot of margaritas so I’m
pretty familiar with Mexican Mexican
live um no that’s great go ahead Alison
I’m just curious with this wine um
obviously it’s it’s stainless steel um
is there anything that they’re doing in
the vinification is it any leav stirring
anything or is it just press and ferment
and yeah just
yeah it’s really text
yeah how many do you do you know how
many total Acres or hectares there are
of foso is it a grape that’s is it
starting to come back is it something
that’s being embraced by others in the
Romania region or is it still kind of
just really small you know just a few a
few Acres a few hectares yeah I’d say it
there’s maybe I’m guessing that maybe
there’s you know 70 producers that are
making it and mind you in in most of the
producers are small so um but uh I you
know I’d say um maybe 20% of romanoli um
producers make Famoso but it is a sight
sensitive grape so it it can you know
can change a lot um producer by producer
so that you mentioned Monte saso that’s
like the the area where it’s from it’s
higher elevation and SAS means
Stone so so there is um presumably I
find this to boso to be more minerally
compared to bosos that are from um lower
Ling regions and you know um let’s say
more of like let’s say clay soil uh th
those will have a profile that will be
more more
fruity um and this one has more
structure you know more minerality and
salinity that’s interesting that makes
me think of um again not an Italian gra
but alberino which I find tends to pick
up more of the the soil you know if you
plant it closer to the coast if you
plant it more on Limestone you pick up
more of that minerality than uh other
you know like domestic alinos which
don’t have that same salinity and
brininess that like a uh a rias bous
alberino
has is this um a grape you think that’s
going to have a a comeback of sorts do
you think think it’ll become famous at
some
point um well when I I first started to
sell it because we we are National um
importers for our producers I uh and
also from New York so
um so I I sold it to the swine store in
Manhattan that was selling it like crazy
and he said everyone’s asking for foso
and then um and then when I would go go
back to him and say Hey you want the
next vintage you know I didn’t hear back
from them so I think it kind of you know
it peaked and then it went down again
but to your point um uh Chris about the
SEO uh uh I’d say uh since January the
the
top um in terms of Google
searches um the uh the top five over the
past you know couple of months has been
fzo W interesting coming our web you
know our website by typing in something
about fosa so there’s definitely
something um an increased interest I
don’t know where it’s coming from though
you know it’s a great word because in
the right in the right context you just
Google famous Italian wine and instead
of getting what they’ll now pull up
which is famous Italian dishes it’ll go
Famoso Famoso yeah if you miss that youu
you’re right there with you know fos
boom
I love it um beautiful yeah so I have to
ask you um and I know you know you’re
from New York you’re a national importer
but how do you find the reception of
Italian wines on the west coast versus
the East Coast you’ve been you know
based in Ventura um is there is there a
difference in how consumers sort of
approach Italian wines in each of the
areas or is it just you know kind of
hitting the
same so I I’d say
um let’s see uh the uh the New York
market for sure is is quite
saturated um they they they’re they’re a
bit um spoiled I’d say in terms of the
variety just because it’s it’s it’s
quicker and cheaper to import into New
York than it is to California even yeah
um so um here here in California um
there’s uh there’s a continued interest
in um in different types of wines and it
doesn’t have to be necessarily
Italian um but there’s definitely this
more of a curiosity Factor compared to
some other um some other uh States for
example I I I did I’ve done some
business development in
Chicago and uh and that uh that market
is I I don’t I hope I’m not gonna offend
anyone but it’s a bit old-fashioned you
know it’s like um you know they’re
still they’re not experimenting a whole
lot with uh you know with you know with
you know pushing the envelope with these
really you know crazy like obure wines
they want they want nebiolo they want s
vasy you know maybe a Peno gregio and
that’s about it probably yeah yeah
they’re nothing they’re nothing like the
Forgotten grapes wine club
members you’re all
special like I this afternoon I was I
was putting together a pallet to send to
our distributor in Tennessee and I sent
cases of foso there
albana um you know these obscure you
know other other obscure grapes so so
what I find really encouraging is that
there’s these SE secondary markets where
you know where there’s a lot of interest
in in um you know different you know
authentic uh wines yeah no I it’s it’s
amazing where wine culture is popping up
these days um you know through my
girlfriend Teresa we have family in
Springfield Illinois and or Springfield
excuse me Springfield Missouri but I was
doing a search because we have to go to
Springfield at the end of uh Jan July to
visit family and I was shocked that
there were like now seven or eight wine
bars that had popped up in the area so
I’m I’m actually a little excited and
interested to get out there just find
out what and I know it’s not not
Missouri wine but you know what wine
culture is in Springfield Missouri and
what what wines they’re touting and if
there’s somebody kind of on the hybrids
hybrids hybrids hybrids no well that’s
obviously the wineries but you know I
think these wine bars are working with
Distributors and doing some interesting
stuff so I’m fascinated to see what’s
out there um speaking of fascinating and
interesting stuff let’s move on to our
uh Rosato the Nero detroyer the Kia Ros
which I believe I saw Kia Ros open for
the sugar cubes back in 91 or ’92 I love
Icelandic music so it works out
perfectly and I have to admit um now
Nara DET trya same grape as UA DET trya
correct uh U dya pro probably I think
the only the only grape I’m familiar
with from with from troa with the Troya
name is is this um I think I I think I
read that in the uh descriptor of this
this grape that uh Naro Detro and U
Detro are the the same grape but I I
tell you what like I took the first sip
of this wine and my immediate thought
was this gonna sound very strange
cocktail sauce like I got almost like a
sort of ketchupy kind of tomato and I
got lemon and it was just like we talked
about wanting shrimp with the last wine
but like this one I wanted to dip you
know boil shrimp into it and and eat
it I’m looking I’m looking for your
tomato sauce
there it’s such it was such a unique
flavor and again this is why why is so
subjective but I just like that was the
flavor profile that immediately hit me
was like this is and I love cocktail
sauce so you know you got you got to do
it the right way which is you don’t have
them make it for you out of a jar you
you get ketchup horseradish and lemon
wedges you make it yourself hopefully
with you know lots and lots of
horseradish in it but um walk us almost
getting spice off of it like a little
well there’s no Horse no like a cinnamon
or something a sweet spice off of it
yeah but it’s such a such a unique grape
and this is from you know we’re now
heading well down the Italian Peninsula
down into the uh the boot into pulia so
how did you discover this wine and
decide this was one that you wanted to
bring into the into your
for yeah so um I love the region of Pula
the people of pulia um you know I have
there’s a couple of regions that are
near and dear to my heart including
abuto which is the next wine and um and
actually come to think of it both uh in
uh the reason both Pula and abuto are
near to dear to my heart is because I’ve
had these wonderful experiences of of
friends actually uh former colleagues
because I worked for 15 years for um
banking technology company in bolognia
and and they would um bring me to home
with them when they would be visiting
their you know their family back in
their home region and so uh so pulia um
was you know one of the big you know
first big road trips I did when I uh
when after I moved to Italy in 2001 and
um and I remember um uh go going um into
my friends uh family’s house and seeing
his father seated down with a glass of
Rosé and and I just found that a little
odd you know I’m not like uh first of
all I was thinking Ros at that point I’m
thinking um you know white Whit’s INF
fendel right I don’t I don’t really have
much experience MTH Lancers white zendel
yeah yeah so just to see Ros was kind of
of uh you know a little odd for me and
and then see a
[Laughter]
man so so that got me curious and and uh
I actually want up I think winning the
heart of my my friend’s father because
once he found out I was so intrigued
about wine in their culture they
actually brought me to a winery and
everything but um but but P pia has the
longest tradition of of drinking roses
out of all all of Italy and um and it’s
also a very historic uh region I mean
okay granted almost all regions in Italy
are very historic but um but in um in
pulia because it it’s on the Eastern um
coast of the Adriatic and has a very
long Coast um
that’s almost close to you know it’s
close to um you know the Balkan
countries in Greece and it’s also not
too far from Northern Africa that it it
has a lot of influence from um from
other cultures and also from from
seafaring um seaf fairing cultures like
uh one of their Traditions is uh is to
have um like hard bread um their their
bread is known to just to last forever
and a hard tack that you would get on SE
voyages yeah yeah yeah the traditional
you know the hard crust it’s really the
traditional sort of Italian bread you
know that we um it comes that that uh
type of bread which is lot the mort
comes from from pulia and um and you
know it’s a poor region um and also a
region that has um relies a lot
traditionally on the sea because of its
long
postline and um so so yeah they have uh
you know roses were were popular there
you know going back to ancient times you
know there’s there’s documents you know
showing that they they they would drink
rosé wine you know years and you know
thousands of years ago um and um and to
be honest though pulia is a bit of a
tricky region because um it is it is
South you know it’s in the southern hot
part of Italy and as a Simo I you know I
look for wine that has Balan so meaning
it has to have good acidity in addition
to the fruit and um and what I I like
particular about um domas horte this
producer is they’re um they’re in the
northern part of pulia so that they
presumably they don’t get the hottest
you know the hottest wet weather and um
and then also they’re close to the town
of Troya which is the origin of uh nroa
which is of course a red grape and um
and and most people know Pula for
Primitivo which is the you know
precursors let’s say to
zendel um and uh and Primitivo tends the
in general Primitivo wines tend to be
very Jammy you know they kind of lack
lack acidity and the Naro detoo grape um
has more tannin compared to Primitivo so
it has it has more structure and
um and and in general I you know I I
think that a a a grape that has a lot of
structure lends itself well to a
rosé
um a fruity you know you get a lot of
the fruit but then you also get the you
know the acidity and you don’t really
get much of the tenance as
well yeah and you can I mean you can
definitely get the acidity and the
structure on this one it is a very it’s
not a it’s not a loose Rosé it’s not
super fruity it’s very tight but at the
same time you get that acidity you get a
lot of you know really unique flavors on
it um a lot of herbaceousness on this
which I find just so unique I think
that’s where that to me that sort of
tomato influence comes from is that
herbaceousness um that’s yeah it’s super
interesting um and I forgot what I was
going to say about but it’s it’s
delicious how is the red version of this
I know we’re we’re only tasting the
Rosado but what does you know red Naro
detroy I bring to the to the table yeah
it’s uh the one that um uh that doas HTE
makes called cinero is um it kind of has
it a it’s of course you know plums a lot
of you know red fruit um but then you
also get like tea leaves it’s it’s a you
know again I think it’s that
herbaceousness that you get in the Rosé
and in the the red version it you know
manifests itself in a slightly different
um you know like taste and
sensation um that that so uh all the
domas horte um wines that we Import in
are all um steel steel fermented and
steel aged so um frankly I kind of like
that you know because then you get the
full you know the full expression of the
grape Matt I like your pairing I think
that rhubarb
rhubarb and orange the Citrus the
tartness nice match with the wine yeah
the feta especially to me I think that
like the saltiness of the feta would
match so well with sort of the the dry
you know Citrus or viciousness of this
wine I think that’s that like the
rhubarb would be super interesting but
the feta to me is just that little
cherry on top of this that I think would
be phenomenal um no it’s delicious and I
I have to ask I mean you know over the
last seven eight years it seems like
French roses especially provance roses
have kind of become very invogue among
the you know the coastal Elites and
whatnot um have you found the same same
with Italian rosados or is there still
kind of
a an educational aspect to get people to
drink roses from Italy as opposed to to
south of
France yeah so uh I actually wrote an
article about this uh subject and I
called it break the glass ceiling on
Ros um probably the biggest um sort of
um misconceptions that
um you know amongst
the wine industry in America I found is
with um W wine shops um and you know
they only want the latest vintage they
the the grap um the Ros has to have a
certain color um they’re just ve very
rigid in their approach um in fact I
know we’re going to move on soon to the
the fa the Fabo um multipu chano but
this is the Rosé the Rosé version of um
of the mulano called Cho diuto I I’ll
pour it for you but you’ll see that it’s
technically a rosé but it looks like a
red you know red wine so guess what I
sell this as a chillable
[Laughter]
red and nobody knows any
better just tell them it’s Carbonic
Carbonic
monana oh that’s that’s funny um so you
know we heard a little bit oh all right
Mike and Lyn are with me on the shrimp
horseradish and tomato thing appreciate
that uh got a little backing any any
other Sheila that you would normally
pair with
this um I mean I just think it’s really
great with appetizers you know I mean
it’s easy to drink
um and you know certainly would would be
nice with a um uh like a pasta kind of a
simple pasta dish with um with uh just
fresh fresh tomatoes you not tomato
sauce but just like cut cut up fresh
tomatoes not not even um in in
Italy especially in the summer they they
many um many Italians they they don’t
even cook the tomatoes and to make a
pasta sauce they’ll just use just fresh
tomatoes uh olive oil and some some
basil you know on
top yeah I I can definitely see that um
to me I’m gonna a little bit of a wild
card on this one for me like for some
reason I’m thinking either spanic Opa or
tiopa like either those Greek dishes but
it’s that Mediterranean influence either
like the spinach with the uh with the
the puff pastry I can see this or
especially like the feta baked into the
puff past I think just be super
delicious with this in fact like that’s
what I am craving right now which is
going to be very difficult to find uh
when we finish our our chat here so I
think I think what’s nice about this and
and on points that you both have
mentioned that this is a rosé that has
some structure it’s got It’s it’s got
you know got walls on it so it makes it
really food accessible it can go with so
many different things and because it has
you know Chris’s kind of herbaceous
notes you can pull it in with some
vegetables and and and the saltiness
goes with the acidity and I’m getting a
little bit of cinnamon and kind of brown
spice which makes me think of like I
don’t know that’s
racist Sweet Brown cooking spices you
know but more cinnamon than like cumin
or or something else but that makes me
kind of want like I mean I think of like
cinnamon Red Hots or something and
just I don’t know so because there are
walls on this Rosé you would almost need
a wooden horse to penetrate the narrow
DET tra is what you’re
saying just meant that there it’s got
structure so that it’s got sides it’s
not it’s not flabby it’s not soft it’s
not light it has it has parameters
around it I don’t know how to visually
explain the wine that I’m getting it’s
like Vatican City is what you’re saying
sure all right beautiful keep the
Italian keep the Italian uh metaphor is
going I love it um no this is this is
delicious and
Doos um Latin of course for Sheila what
is it
[Music]
Latin uh
yeah she speaks Italian not Latin don’t
miss I I believe there’s um doas doas
Forte is
definitely
yeah yeah I I I would I’d be taking a
wild guess okay all right we will uh we
will look that up in the after sh and
let you all know what
uh and sorry what is what is the story
of the name Kia Rose because it’s the
fioretti family that owns it right yeah
it means uh uh just in time so uh so all
of their wines have um have these names
to them that um many many of them are uh
referring either to um you know to uh
pretty much well actually one one one
wine is referring to a Greek dialect one
one word um you know for another wine of
theirs is uh is the local uh Greek
dialect so um so it’s it’s probably it’s
probably the the dialect of of the you
know of the town where they’re from um
which is or Orton NOA um and in Italy
almost um every every town or city has
has their own dialect because of the his
history of Italy in which it was like
these independent city states
initially
interesting sorry I’m looking up the
Latin so forgive me if I’m
I haven’t taken Latin since eth grade
but I’m now determined domus means house
so we’ve got that like a like a dwelling
like a doile so but I don’t know what
HTE means all right we’ll come back to
it um the town where they’re from is
oron NOA so I wouldn’t be surprised
because they’re they’re um their family
has been farming in in Orton NOA since
the uh I think it’s the 77 yes since
1786 so um so I’m sure it’s referring to
the the town um that that that orte
would be the um Latin name for the
town that that makes a lot of sense
that’s a much better
explanation wonderful um beautiful let’s
move on to like you said a region that
is close to your heart uh AB Bruto and
the uh Familia
febo MTI de tell us about this
wine yeah so I by the way I’m I’m I’m
having the um the Rosé version if you
see as I mentioned it do no that’s not a
rosé that’s a chillable red that looks
exactly like so the the multip multipu
chano is the grape uh a lot of people
confused um
this uh wine uh with a uh and the grape
with uh with a a tusin wine which is a
Roso the Molano so leave it to the
Italians that there’s um a town called
mulano in Tuscany and then there’s a
grape called mulano in AB Bruto which is
a different region so Sheila you should
point out that the multiple chano in
Tuscany produces sangio
right
multi is a great
multipu right just to confuse you you
know clearly name for the Tuscan
montiano because of her love AB Bruto
mle so it’s h it’s a grape um because
this is a rosé you can tell it has a lot
of pigment um to it and um and so your
your red is just really Inky um in color
so that’s typical of the grape it’s also
um a grape that has a lot of
tannins um so traditionally the in a
Bruto um for for many years maybe up
until let’s say 30 years ago you
wouldn’t find um multip chano um wine as
a red wine you only would see it as a
rosé and and it’s just um in in more you
know more recent times since the
popularity of of red wine has come about
that they’ve that the abut has been
making um multipu chano as as a red wine
um when when I first moved to
Italy in two thou 2001 um I you know I
would go to the supermarket and find you
know wine for like two Euro you know
this like Two Buck Chuck type you know
um and I be like you know I I would be
shocked you know to find a wine at like
two Euro and I would buy um buy it and
I a lot of those wines that I bought at
2o were um were um mulano red wines you
know mult from a
Bruto and but I must admit after a while
I got I got a bit tired of of the wine
um it it it just kind of got boring to
me after watch and then I moved on and
for for years I I didn’t have a aano
Deo and uh and then you know fast
forward to um to when I started my
company I you know because I love the
region so much I I was looking for a a
small producer that um was never in the
US before and and it was really hard to
find a small producer in um from a Bruto
because most of the the wineries are
um are uh e either this these large uh
wineries or coop coop Cooperative uh
wineries um which you basically means
you know it comes from different Farms
they kind of mix it all in and uh or or
they were these you know really
well-known um small W wineries that
already were imported into the US and so
um so then uh I wind up meeting um Davi
a uh Fabo so this uh the name of the
producers Familia Fabo which means um
family and um he was studying law at the
University of
bolognia and and um then his his
grandfather passed away and his
grandfather was the one that was making
wine and he was the main vineer on and
and so um so he actually he decided to
give up uh his law uh studies and he
went back to a Bruto and and decided to
to take over the winery with um with his
his sister and um and and then um uh you
know he kept in in touch with me and
then Co hit and sure enough his first uh
release his first vintage was um was
when you know right right right in 20120
was his his the first uh you know year
that he was releasing his wines
and I you know back then there there
wasn’t any um you know wine trade fairs
um and uh and I you know was fortunate
that we we still kept in touch and um
and then I I wind up you know tasting
his Wines in 2020 and I I really liked
his mulano the the red that you’re
having I um you know what what I like
that most about that wine is the
texture you know you can really tell
that it’s it’s uh from a place and it
you know hasn’t been tampered with and
and there’s just a richness to it that
um uh is um you know really you know
calls calls back to the terar where
they’re the place where they’re from
there’s almost like a savoriness on the
nose that it’s the the dark fruit but
there’s this
I don’t want to go so far and say meaty
but there’s this real savoriness to
it yeah it’s so unique and I mean I
always find that
montiano which it’s funny you mentioned
that montiano was only you know not too
many years ago was only found in Rosé
mode because I feel like maybe it’s like
Australian chz it’s been one of those
wines it’s just sort of exploded on the
uh International scene because I feel
like you can’t throw a stone in a Trader
Joe’s and not hit monteano or if you
look at a lot of wine lists out there
you know more of the value priced wines
at the bottom of the the pricing of the
list tend to be um montip chano de
brutos do you find the same thing yeah
yeah it’s um it’s um I I must admit um
fact that I I had a meeting at a an
Italian restaurant in um in Venice Beach
um two days ago and was
it and I
um you know I I I did bring um a bottle
of of that that you’re drinking tables
mulano but I I didn’t you know I didn’t
like um like open it I wanted to first
ask him because they already had a
multipu chano on the list you know and
um and my my friend that I was with
knows that multiple chano it’s not not
that good you know it’s cheaper of
course it’s cheaper and you know that
that restaurant just isn’t the right
target you know for you know for for for
that wine in fact you know which um
which place wind up
um um choosing this by the glass is uh
my Milo and Olive in Santa Monica y uh
and they
uh you know that that you know the some
there they you know they just seek out
like you know better wines um and and
actually um you know I could see this
wine pairing well you know with just a
really really good pizza probably Pizza
that that has you know salami on it some
sort of meat you know to kind of um kind
of interacts with the you know with the
tannins yeah margorie and uh Janice say
very floral you know Matt’s loving this
with Pasta Pomodoro um I could
definitely see this with like a an
Italian sausage something spicy that
earthiness to me when I think of monano
De Bruto not the Tuscan monano um
there’s always an earthiness to it like
it has that that distinct um richness
that that that fullness do you think
that’s part of the soil because I know
Bruto kind of south of Amelia Romana
very mountainous area if I’m not
mistaken yeah it’s it’s mountainous um
and actually I I went um to visit Fabo
in in July um it actually was during you
may have heard there was a heat wave in
in July in Italy and um excuse me and
then when when I went to um to you know
when I arrived at their their Winery it
was right around like 5 in the evening
and um I mean but it was still hot and I
was I was pleased that um their
Vineyards are um pergola so the TR Trad
that’s the tradition um the traditional
training system in AB Bruto and uh so so
basically it had that that covering you
know of of the vines and and it was
actually great you know we walked
underneath the underneath the The Vines
and and it was cool you know it was cool
there um it was also hilly um their soil
I remember it being kind of like clay
and Sandy I mean they’re they’re pretty
close to the they’re like you know maybe
like they’re less than five miles from
from attic seed W so um you know so that
you know there there’s also this of
course the the influence from a yeah you
know weather you know weather
perspective as
well yeah it feels like with the brutes
of the mountains go almost right to the
coast it feels like kind of I guess like
Chile in a certain way is is very
similar to that that type of type of
layout um no it’s an amazing place to
visit yeah I can imagine if you don’t
get caught in an earthquake because I
know that’s they’ve had a lot of
earthquakes recently memory serves I was
there two years ago and I I mean flying
to Rome two-hour drive if that and just
some of the most beautiful scenery the
coastline the mountains you’re talking
about it is just a gorgeous Place away
from tourist um absolutely worth
visiting not not Untouched by tourists
not like you’re going to some remote
place but just a far more like
authentic beautiful experience it’s a
beautiful land and
Bruto very nice
um wonderful well uh food pairings with
this one we kind of talked Pizza we
talked sausage we talked Pasta Pomodoro
any additional food pairing
Sheila I’m having salami now it’s really
good kopa or Genoa or what kind of
SL well I bought it in America so but
looks like more like the calab kind CU
it’s a little like
a it’s a little
Picante nice little spice to it it’s
also working with some um like an
Amsterdam you know like an aged aged
Gudda with the kind of butterscotch
caramel notes and the Crystal
crystallization going very well with the
wine very
interesting all right let’s move on to
the Aldo
clerico 2020 neolo
long um really interesting wi as you
mentioned to me specifically these
grapes are actually from a Vineyard that
is designated as
bolo but because of reasons this is
designated only as a uh nebiolo long
take us through that why isn’t this a
Baro wine even though it is a b yeah so
I did ask ask Aldo that
um um and uh so a little bit of back
background about about Al Aldo clerico
and his family so his um his
great-grandfather um basically uh
divided up the land amongst you know all
all of his um you know children and um
and and Al Aldo’s father’s cousin is
Dominico clerico
so there you know Dominic clerico is a
very you know more much more wellknown
in America than than Aldo um and uh and
and but when you go to see Aldo’s uh
property which is just south of the town
of bolo you you’re on the road and you
pass by Dominico Claro’s property um and
you make a right and and El ELO’s right
there so in fact um
when I have his his diani uh with me
here diani is aeto but um but when I I
was in a a store in New Jersey um with
with Aldo and he was looking at a
Dominico clerico Delani and he’s like my
my Vineyard is right next to
Dominico so um so anyway but yeah but Al
Aldo’s family never U made wine mean
certainly they uh they were wine GR
Growers so they they were um you know
for um and uh but their main professions
were different so Aldo’s dad was a a
fireman and and Aldo uh studied
accounting um and started to work as an
accountant and then he didn’t like it so
uh so he he decided to um to become an
an an intern at Dominico clerico Winery
and he he learned had to make wine um
initially from you know at his you know
his his his cousin’s property his
cousin’s uh Winery and then he started
his own um and he his first uh vintage
of bro I think was in
2004 and um and bro needs to be aged for
at least at least two years right so um
so so anyway he you know in 2004 you
know started to actually make wine and
but he didn’t want to wait you know like
three he doesn’t really release his Bros
until you know three years after so so
anyway he decided that he was going to
take one of his um bro designated
Vineyards and just declassify it and
have it as a ling niolo and not age it
as long because that way he could he
could sell start selling and get getting
some you know money
get that get that get get those dollas
you know do you know what the the the
secret is to all the all the neolo
lovers out there because you know
there’s this joke that like wine makers
drink um you know what do they drink
when they’re when they’re waiting for
their bolo is they drink Barbara because
bolo takes so long in both the AG
requirements and then the tannins and it
takes time the secret is if you want
good nebiolo and you don’t want to pay
Crazy Prices you get long neolo it’s
ready to drink within you know Within
release in a couple years you can enjoy
it it’s not not overly tanic it doesn’t
need 10 years to age and soften it’s
just long abolos are like the secret
yep but one one thing um I I must uh
mention um is um I I was at um a a wine
store
um in in Orange County but any case uh
and I I had you know I had them taste
Alder clerico L the wine
exchange
yes like the only major store in Orange
I mean the there there’s there’s three
but yeah it’s like an Boutique wines
wine exchange but yeah and High
Times yeah so so anyway they tasted it
and and basically they passed because
they thought it was too structured
um and um and so what I I get from that
is the other you know it’s it’s a little
bit a little bit like the conversation I
was having before about the multipu
chano you know there’s a big difference
between different multi chanos just like
there’s a big difference between
different L neolos right and and so they
they just prefer uh a line neolo that
has a little bit more approach to it um
um but then um after that I was with um
I was with a friend and uh and she she’s
the W wine writer um not you elone else
and you other wine writer friends I’m
shocked and so she she got sent a a
sample of a of a bolo that um that was
um uh was I I looked it up when I you
know when I was tasting it it retails
for like you know low 30s so you know
and I was kind of looking at the the
label to figure out like is this like a
single Vineyard or is it made by small
producer like who madees it it wasn’t
clear like who who made it you know but
I’m sorry it’s a $30 retail bolo that
exists yeah so I it and to be honest I
think Al Aldo’s L neolo is better than
than this than this bolo
I personally have in in The Limited
number of inexpensive BOS I’ve had I
have never had one that has wowed me the
way long nebiolo constantly Wows me as
this oh my God like this $30 $40 wine
that I can drink in nebiolo that’s only
three years old wow you know and to your
point Patty yes how does someone say a
wine be too structured you’re talking
about a retailer so they’re thinking of
Their audience they’re not thinking it
isn’t to say they wouldn’t like the wine
or it wouldn’t be great with food or
that it doesn’t have all the potential
they’re thinking about how it’s too
structured to sell for someone to take
home open it up and sip it without food
but that’s that’s what’s odd is they
said it’s too structured which means
they want like a wild Savage kind like
where where are they going with this it
doesn’t it doesn’t make any sense and I
feel like circling back to what you were
talking about Allison and Sheila to a
certaint
um a
$30 pero is like a $25 Pina Noir
like yeah fire fire
beware no and and I think I think that
this is just such a beautiful wine it’s
so drinkable I I you know look buyers
and also you have to remember like when
you’re dealing with a buyer as as
knowledgeable as they are as as as good
as they may be I mean I I remember
when I was selling wine and I had a
zinfindel that was a very classic
zinfindel it was spicy and fruit but not
Jammy and I was told by the buyer at
Lowry’s that this was not a proper zinel
zinfindel and I said no this is a
classic Z nope it’s not a good Zim Fidel
it should be Jammy you know I can’t
argue with someone who has the view that
it should be a certain way and in their
mind this wine didn’t have enough jam
and so you can’t argue with the buy
because you want your sweet glaze over
top of your Prim totally so you know you
know buyers are are humans and they have
their own odd
um you know structure is probably not
the right word for him to use because
no no it’s a very it’s a very odd
description and I mean the thing about
BOS and barbaresco even with the Aging
is they’re still difficult wines and
like saying Allison they’re wines that
generally need to be paired with food
these are not you know quaffable wines
you just want to open and enjoy a glass
whereas I’m gonna I’m gonna defer to
Sheila and start calling this A Lang
nebiolo um as opposed to Long which is
what I grew up learning but well it’s
not a long it’s long sorry longa
long tomato
tomato with Lang it’s a lang it’s a lang
nebiolo D Lang dang dang um but it it is
it is very drinkable now which is what I
appreciate you don’t get that like super
tar and rose petal nose but what you’re
getting is the acidity the brightness
the tannins that aren’t overpowering but
definitely fill the mouth um I mean this
is a a beautiful wine that just like
hits hits all the right notes and I I I
can’t imagine there’s folks out there
who would turn their nose up this so I
should go down and get another
appointment and have them reted I think
so I think you you must have caught them
on the wrong day or they had just had
somebody come in who had like you know
fed them sagrantino after sagrantino or
something
BL um so you know
nebiolo what would you say are classic
pairings with a with a wine like
this so um
of course you know in in saying nebbiolo
of course I’m thinking bro and um and
when um I I went to visit Aldo um in in
December um and what’s Al what’s Aldo
like as a
human he’s really laidback uh you have
to you have to put him in his element
though because I uh I I remember um
because he so laate laidback I
interviewed him live on a
podcast um and and he he was a little
stiff you know you have to get him you
know where he’s like you know like he he
doesn’t feel he’s put on the spot and
then he then he he talks about
everything but
wine about his kids and uh you know his
wife um and talks about how how he hates
[Laughter]
aventus but his big thing is um why
would he hate Juventus he lives in Ponte
near because he supports Torino come on
oh no that
is there are two teams there are two
teams in
t well Juventus is the only team in
Torino except for Torino which you know
is
Siri in the same way that somebody can
support espanol even if they live in
Barcelona yeah Juventus is the real Team
okay Cristiano
Ronaldo sorry Sheila didn’t mean didn’t
mean for Alison to interrupt you so
rudely yeah so uh so what what one thing
I love about Aldo his approach is that
he he wants to stay small he just loves
he he loves um emphasizing that and and
and I I love you know supporting him you
know for that reason as well um like uh
just another you know another example of
you know in this case Aldo um but like a
benefit of a small small producer is he
um so he makes uh three three
buros this is um this is his let’s say
classic bolo that’s from five different
Vineyards around his his property and
what he does is he he venies each
Vineyard separately and then does an
assemblage um to create you know to
create the the bro and and I asked him
so you know when you’re doing all this
you know mixing from different barrels
what what do you do with the the wine
that’s left and he’s like oh I’ll I’ll
sell it off you know and you know he
probably sells it like he’ll sell it to
some you know eventually it’ll get
bottled kind of like that that bolo that
I had that cost 30 something dollars you
know it’s just it doesn’t really have
like a distinctive character you know to
it like it’s not going into Gaia is what
you’re
saying sorry it’s not going into Gaia
no Costco bolo right go Kirkland
Kirkland
bolo but back to your question about the
pairing so when I went to visit Aldo uh
once it was uh
December um and uh and he um he invited
uh me and my my colleague to to lunch at
you know at a their their at in their
town monforte delba and um and so so it
was a very you know traditional meal and
um and they
um oh shoot I forget the name now uh oh
it’s called uh what what happens is they
you know we were sitting down and in
Italy if you remember there’s the Primo
and sondo Primo is usually the pasta so
this was the sondo sondo you usually get
I mean in this case I was expecting a
meat dish you know and all of a sudden
there’s this um pot of um kind of like a
concept of a f fondu pot um you know
with the the light um you know the flame
underneath to keep it hot but instead of
being fondue it was this um mix
of you know
this liquid M mixture and it’s called um
B CA Oh and um and then it comes with
vegetables so you you dip the vegetables
in the B CA and and we were pairing it
with um with Aldo it was actually his
first uh vintage ever that 2004 I was
telling you about his bolo and
um and it paired really really well like
I was I was really surprised at how a
brolo and and in this case it could be
the lime Nebo that you’re drinking which
is basically equivalent to let’s say a
younger bolo um that you know it paired
so well um because you know technically
Bala is is made from anov garlic and and
olive oil those are those those are the
main inred
ingredients um and um you know I’m sure
it was the intensity of the flavors that
um you know that that made it you know
of of the the dish that made it pair
with the wine well and also because the
wine isn’t overpowering you with tannins
or or that you know that structure that
a big bolo can have that needs meat to
to kind of help it you can see how a
wine like this which still has a a
freshness to it and a and a a lightness
to it a a friendlier to it can go with
something a little with intense flavor
but maybe not as um you know
dense yeah I will I will share my B
story in a second but I have to say Matt
said wild mushroom
risoto Carrie said brool as a pairing
with this I want to combine those two
together and put the pork gel into the
wild mushroom risoto
and then pair it with this wine I think
that would be
insanely you just go ahead I will I will
um so when I had my wine shop down in
Riverside one the first wine dinners we
had uh Kate and Kurt dubost came down
and did like a five course pairing with
h five of their wines but one of the
dishes she made was a uh B C with
vegetables and pieces of bread with the
you know olive oil garlic and anchovy
and it was just such a mind blower that
it was one of the most delicious things
I’ve ever had so I’m a huge B fan I I
know what you speak of and I can I can
taste it and like sense this wine with
it I think the acidity of this wine the
tannin compared with the you know
balanced with the slipperiness of the
olive oil and the U the the saltiness of
the anovi would be just an
amazing with h with this wine
so all right let’s move on to our last
wine and you know what Allison I’m gonna
let you take the reins from your right
now
um well Sheila already knows because she
embarrassed Me by putting a video a real
up the other day but um the wine that
stole my heart my very first wine the
wine I fell in love with that made me
fall in love with wine even before I
knew I would ever work in wine was
bretto um I was living in pedmont in a
town someone handed me a glass at 4:30
in the afternoon at a pair of TV and it
was red and it was slightly sweet and
slightly sparkling I took a sip and I
was like what is this bretto to me is
happiness in a glass it is slightly
sweet slightly effervescent I hope you
have a chill on it it can smell like
strawberries this one I think has like
wild strawberries it’s like have it with
chocolate and strawberries it is like
happiness in a glass it is
just but ieto it’s just there’s not a
lot of it here in the US when I first
came back to the US after living in
Italy I couldn’t find it anywhere people
thought I was insane when I would say do
you have any but I cetch and they’d say
what is it and I’m like oh it’s a
slightly sweet slightly upper rent red
wine from Italy and they’d be like okay
that’s
insane um
then I would bring bottles back with me
every time I went and it’s just you know
it’s just it’s uh it’s in the same
family as the Moscato diasi from the
same region aquii and AI or two towns um
I find that I think that moscato diasi
can be absolutely gorgeous I find bretto
just having the floral and aromatics
without even all that sweetness so
Sheila take it away and tell us what you
love about
breto well one thing um I don’t think
you mentioned is the aromatics I mean
you kind of mentioned it is the the red
version if you will of Moscato which
Moscato is aromatic um and I remember um
I was at a a wine tasting event in um
here in Ventura in September and uh and
and this this woman you know who who was
specifically seeking out sweet wines um
you know never had raet before and and
iester like smell it you know because it
just has this bouquet that’s just really
intriguing and
um and it’s it’s the rose that you know
that that that’s the most intriguing you
know Aroma in my opinion um and you know
that is a raise sorry a little B Midler
on that one but it’s also but I think to
your point Sheila it’s the Roses it’s so
pretty and and so many people have this
idea when they hear sweet wine that they
go oh no but if this wine has a chill on
it take a sip of it yes you get the
sweetness but the acidity the acidity is
what matches it and you know maybe you
only want to have a glass or two at the
end of the night we’re talking about 5%
alcohol
right
maybe I don’t know what is the alcohol
on this one L than the beer 6.5 %
alcohol have a SI when it’s chilled just
let that acidity wash over the sweetness
then take a strawberry take a piece of
dark chocolate and this is just that
that this is the wine you want to have
with those kind of desserts it’s just
with berries with wild berries with
anything like that it just is it’s just
it’s not overly sweet but it is sweet
yeah well with um with SH certain types
of shakery yeah maybe more like P and
not the the pante calab salami that I
have here um and also some some
cheeses um yeah I did a cooking class I
went on a baretto trip how happy was I
when I got invited on a press trip to go
to aqu and taste petto and not only do
we visit producers but we did a cooking
class and we made a ve dish that was
where we use baretto and we made
cocktails with baretto and it just
showed the versatility that it does not
just have to be with you know dessert
that it is a wine that can be paired
with pucho with with some Savory dishes
as well Alison you just made enemies of
Genie and Mike by the
way why what did I say you said the V
word oh yeah exactly sorry I was in
Italy they eat it in Italy I can’t help
it it’s true no Carrie Carrie says
Cameron suggests a princess cake with
raspberry and marsan um I have always
contended that because I had a very
similar experience the first petto I
ever had just like blew my mind and
opened up Horizons and to me this is the
best brunch wine you’ve ever had you
want to pair this with like cheese blint
with you know nice French toast uh like
stuffed French toast with cream cheese
would go amazingly with this um but you
mentioned the Roses which is always
apparent on the nose like you should get
you know lovely rose petal notes on the
nose um it’s just I always called this
the Strawberry Shortcake of Forgotten
grapes and by Strawberry Shortcake I
meant not the dessert but the you know
80s animated and kener doll because it
was sort of likewe sweet and cute and
smelled just exotic berries and this
wine was absolutely
that how is it selling how does how do
people respond to baretto Sheila so I um
I I worked at at a wedding last last
weekend and
um and so I um you know I had uh you
know I had sort of free free rain from
the the bride I I uh was she said you
know bring whatever wines you know
people would like that’s shocking that
you had free rain with a
BRI brought a white Ros what um a red
and um then I bought moscato moscato
dasti from ivaldi this producer and I
brought the
baretto and um and the the in general
the the favorite was the bareto
yeah and um and it didn’t surprise
me um it’s a wine that uh that let’s say
90% of the wine drinkers would like and
I’m going to say 90% you know there are
you
know C certain you know wine drinkers
that really like they just don’t like
sweet wines you know they just really
really want the dry wines you know and
iide from that um you know of course
there’s a lot of people that really
prefer you know sweet sweet wine so this
this they they like um I uh I remember
going to a like a an H HOA meet meeting
it was a Cinco Deo party um here in
ventur county and um and I brought a a
baretto with me and I was at a
table with uh with mostly non-wine
Drinkers and I I’m like try this and
they loved it you know it’s like what
can’t you love about like if you like
you know if you like juice you know okay
it’s just a you know it’s better than a
juice I think right and just of the
people that are on the screen how many
of you this is your first time trying
Baro okay and three four five okay and
how many people like
bretto six
[Music]
[Laughter]
no I mean I I it there’s a wine for
every occasion absolutely and Scott will
forgive you because I promise you’ll
love it and you’ll send me a message
later Kelly this will be Kelly’s go-to
wine from now on yes there she is um I
do have to ask Sheila just because you
know
I’m a wine
controversialist how do you feel about
the swword about Stella Rosa um you know
it is BTO it is it is bretto that has
been sort of slung to the masses but in
like the cheapest toest way thank you
Jenna oh that’s sorry
marer got
it yeah well today today’s Moscato
National Moscato Day by the way
so kind of um sort of celebrating with
retto um but I I I did post today about
Moscato um mentioning that it is a
victim of its own success because it’s
become so so popular that um that
there’s so many you know cheap moscatos
that are out there and then and then
what happens is PE people who who you
know prefer a good wine they’ll they’ll
just avoid any any Moscato you know
because they assume it’s not it’s not
good and what I what I tell people is um
okay camomile and honey you know will
will you drink chamomile and honey all
day no but there’s a time and place
during the day for chamomile and honey
and that’s and that’s how I feel about
wine and that’s also thanks to the you
know the influence I’ve had you know
living in Italy is that there’s a time
and place for every wine and you know
and our our
M
Moscato um I don’t have it with me but
it tastes like Cam and honey as a wine
and you know this tastes you know has a
different taste but it’s
um you know it’s just a matter of just
being a little little open-minded and
and realizing that um you know just kind
of being open to a variety of wines
which I think is what you’re you as
forgotten grapes you’re about you know
absolutely
you know when I I I should put in
context that when I was living in Italy
when this was introduced to me it was
summer I had moved there it was August I
lived in a town called belli that’s the
rice Capital which means humidity so to
your point Sheila it’s time and place at
4:30 in the afternoon when it’s you know
80 degrees with 40% humidity and you’re
outside and someone hands you this and
it’s chilled and it’s fresh and a little
sweet and but I mean it’s Perfection
it’s the perfect time and place for that
and it and that’s I probably why it left
such a lasting impression with me but
time and place is everything F and also
it’s low in alcohol so most U like a
spritz you know is low in alcohol like
most of the Italian um you know drinks
that you have at an apptivo are low
alcohol because I can just imagine like
who would want alcohol if you’re you
know if it’s hot and humid like that no
Allison was his name DAV who handed it
to
you uh no Danielle but
no I see where this
is no no the first person handed to me
was my Italian sister Samantha so oh
well you know whatever whatever turns no
but but I also think I think that um the
problem is and this goes for like you
were saying Moscato it’s the same
problem with prco Stellar Rosa to me is
like taking the sweetness to the extreme
and not letting the acidity match like
just kind of overblowing it the way a
lot of inexpensive precos sort of push
it and go well we want to be a little
sweeter you know and they’re losing
their balance they’re losing that
Harmony between the sweetness and the
and the and the acidity and um you know
when that’s your first experience to a
wine with residual sugar of course it’s
a turnoff I mean you might like it but
eventually that’s a turnoff when you get
to get balance like you get in a wine
like this it just shows you that
residual sugar is not the you know
Enemy No it’s it’s an amazing wine and
like you said you know Mike and Lyn
definitely pair this with strawberries
whipped cream you know some soft uh
melted chocolate will be phenomenal with
this dark chocolate what dark chocolate
dark chocolate melted dark chocolate
there you go Sheila before we lose you
to the darkness which we
doing do you want to like on the light I
mean go ahead it’s fine um what would
you pair
this um I mean you know of course
strawberries um I guess Strawberry
Shortcake cheese
blindes that actually sounds really good
Chris I I like I said it is with the
right brunch dish it is uh yep chocolate
need a little bit of saltiness in it so
like a stuffed French toast or a cheese
blend some that like cream cheese mixed
in the middle like boom done and done uh
yeah margorie and Janice say chocolate
moose which absolutely I 100% agree with
on this yeah just think of the creamy
sweetness of that mousse and then the
acidity and you’re like
so it’s uh it’s after eight so we should
wrap up um Sheila as you mentioned not
only are you importing these wines and
distributing them but you are you know
selling them as well so you know if
folks are interested in getting more
bottles of any of these wines what’s the
best way for them to get in touch with
you or to you know do you have a website
where they can buy the wines from
you yeah so our website is Vero o.com I
can put it in the chat and um and oh um
I encourage you all to get on on our
newsletter it’s um basically that that’s
what I do um you know mo most of the
weekend or at least oh my God I’m
scheduled to um to write an an article
about um um but I CET the cocktails on
Saturday so and and I do have some
surprises uh because I last weekend
actually at that uh at that wedding I um
uh I I nailed down um a h a bartender
and she came out with a really good
recipe nice so I I’m interested in that
because like are you pairing it with
more like am maros a paos like what
where are you where are you going with
that using it as like a Proco substitute
or is it going in different
yeah so my my my thinking is you you can
make and Alison probably know this you
know when from your trip to the you know
butet the wine region but my thinking is
um is is to avoid um alcohol um and in
part like Spirits I want to say you know
just have have have wine you know in in
the case of this bartender she W up um
basically she wind up making um
think of a concept of like an opero
Spritz where you have three main
ingredients which is um the opero the
proeco and and the sparkling water so
basically what you do is you
substitute uh um the appol with preto
and and then what you want um is to and
I was referring before to the Mexican
line like I went to the farmers market
here in Ventura to experiment with with
different types of lemons and and
oranges um but uh but a citrus you know
element definitely helps also there’s um
I discovered there’s a a native um uh
herb here inventor called YB bua that’s
kind of like um so adding that it’s nice
to have because it’s an aromatic wine
I’m like I could put on the lights
because I know
I’m this is more fun
once I put on the lights it’s going to
be like really really bright um but uh
but yeah there we go um yeah so so this
this uh uh make you know so again like
making the Spritz from baretto again the
main ingredients I would suggest is
baretto proo and sparkling water and
then um and then just experiment like I
I was experimenting with friends on
Sunday and it was fun you know some like
one of my friends she actually preferred
more preso then baretto another
preferred baretto then PCO um which
which you know which is all good because
you know we all have different palettes
anyway when I when I made a cocktail
years ago I found my old blog post and
this is this about 10 years ago but I
said that it’s a compliment for
cocktails playing on the wines profile I
muddled berries to enhance the structure
and raspberry flavors because I was
working with aoso Regal um I said I
added appol as the bitterness would
balance the wine sweetness after a quick
shap Shake I topped it with bretto added
which added acidity and a squeeze of
orange and I thought I made a pretty
balanced
cocktail what would you say about uh
mixing bretto with like a Paso Sega
would that be something that would go
well
together but I had with what he hasn’t
tried it yet but honestly I think you
have to try it because you’ve got that
lemon lime flavor and that could play
very well with the strawberry yeah Mike
and Lynn you have both Paso and
bretto blend them together and let us
know what you
think with st Matt that’s true
yes and Stacy yeah Stacy and Matt do and
soon
Sabrina she gets her bricket though no
Sabrina drank through hers she’s she’s
you know she loves her Paso SEO almost
too
much exactly there is nothing that stops
Chris from a Shameless plug
nothing gotta please my investors um
okay Sheila as we’re wrapping up here
uh if people want to buy more bottles of
the wonderful wines that we’ve had
tonight these all been delicious super
interesting and most importantly super
unique from each other um what’s the
best way for them to get a hold of you
to uh order online how how can they get
more yeah so I would go to our website
vero.com so I I put it in in the chat
and um and as I I mentioned I would
encourage everyone to get on our
newsletter um in fact I mentioned
Allison in uh
in an article from from two weeks ago
aboutto um and um and then from there
you can of course you know order you
know order online we also have a wine
club that is all about Discovery as well
so nice
excellent um and are you pouring
anywhere up in Ventura or because I know
some of the farmers markets up there
like they’ll allow some of the wineries
to
pour no because uh they’re very strict
here in Ventura you have to actually be
um farming um farming or your land like
I don’t you know I don’t I’m not a
farmer I’m um I’m a h more of a
middleman you know you’re you’re you’re
a
capitalist but uh our next event um I
guess will be um next Friday we’ll be in
h downtown LA I’ll be pouring um uh wine
various uh various wines and also olive
oil at a um a kind of like a coffee shop
place um called uh ill Cafe it’s the fun
place there’s a a pizza um food truck
and it’s a fun fun group of people that
work there nice and if you want to pitch
the olive oil you’ve got 60 seconds
go uh so uh well one of the olive oils
is by by Fabo um and uh and I found out
about the olive oil after I started
importing the wine and what happened was
um DAV FBO said um you know when he
mentioned that he had olive oil he said
that oh it’s just for the locals you
know they come with their own like
container and they you know they just
you know pour you know from from big
tank um and of course it’s organic and
extra virgin and then I’m like
I so he bottled it just for
us so that’s also course on our website
it’s amazing how much of that are you
bringing
over oh I how much of that are you
bringing
over oh she froze oh she’s Frozen oh
no oh yes
there was like everyone was frozen for a
second so no problem I said how much of
that are you bringing
over um I mean it’s just uh I I I must
say
um people know us more for for wine than
Olive Oil so uh so we have um maybe
maybe about five you know five or five
to eight cases
decent amount nice awesome well thank
you so much for being here Sheila we
appreciate it um at this point if
anybody wants to unmute themselves if
you’ve got any questions for Sheila we’d
love to hear it I know Carrie Carri has
one
primarily yeah I had one question okay U
I’m looking this up so Sheila I was in h
bolognia last summer and took like a a
cooking I don’t know somebody’s home and
there was a cheese that I have not been
able to find here and so I wanted to ask
you about it in case maybe you knew of
anywhere I could find it in the states
and I don’t even know how to pronounce
it but it looks like sakona or something
like that yeah yeah is there anywh I
that or something like it here in the
states
um what is it called Sheila what’s up
what’s it called
guacon and what kind of cheese is it
it’s um so it’s a fresh cheese I I guess
the The Taste if anything maybe reminds
me a little bit of cottage cheese
because it’s um you know it’s Bas it’s a
very simple cheese you know but it’s not
like um Stella not Stella um Stella no
not it’s kind of like I don’t know like
between a rata and a Bara in texture and
they put it on like Bray hat on bread
with like a ham it was just very light
and delicious
yeah I I haven’t seen it here here in in
America so um but you want to hear a
funny story when I first went uh skiing
with my friends um you know uh my my
friends in bolognia we we went North to
the dolomedes to go skiing and all a
sudden talking about squat I’m like why
are they talking about sakon they’re
they’re referring to the the snow as
like Saka
[Laughter]
it was like melted
well I haven’t had sakon and when I’m in
bolognia I’m going to look it up in two
weeks and since it’s a fresh cheese I
won’t be able to bring it home for you
um well please tell me how you like it
though I mean it was if it sound if it
sounds a little bit like um what did you
I can never pronounce it it’s SC not
strella the other one sadon no no the
other that’s like a soft cheese kind of
like a cream cheese but it’s Stella not
Stella but a similar
name anyway they have it at Italy and
that’s really good on bread with Pudo on
top all right there there’s something I
can I will figure out the name because I
always there’s Stella
and it’s similar but it comes in a
little
tub and
I can eat one tub in one setting because
it’s so
good I’m posting a uh Link in the chat
on how to make your own
squack I I will have I’ll have Matt text
you so you can see the spelling of it
Alis
salvator so you can see but I think
Chris gave you a recipe so you can make
your
own yeah there’s a there’s a make your
own
sakon recipe that I found at
cheesemaking.com because I’m on that
site quite frequently go all the ches
that I make so yeah all right thanks
you’re
welcome all right anybody else have any
questions for Sheila or comments
critiques want to talk about her
lighting
[Laughter]
situation car’s coming
yeah so we wanted to say these wines
were really delicious like I’ve never
had a famosa and that was yummy the Rosé
we typically drink a lot of French roses
and because I know some of the Italian
ones the Rosado can be a little heavier
but I know what Allison was trying to
say about like the wall and having it it
has more structure than like summer
water you know it had like a little
weightiness a little you know more mouth
feel Acy you should never drink summer
water ever well I’m saying like you know
with Ros you can drink you know Ros all
day like just that you know I don’t care
how many Lakers you know sweets you’re
in never
drink yeah but that was really good I
mean in the mulano delicious the niola
was a nice like contrasting difference
but again you can drink them you know
having nice structure good balance nice
mouth feel really really good and think
about these prices these wines are so
well priced yeah and we were just
scrolling through your website and you
have so many more would really fast we
saw like a malbeck like 27 malbeck and
so many others and looking at the olive
oil and we’re very excited it’s really
unique to have this opportunity to taste
all these so thank you so much the
maloso ma la la maloso olive oil since I
bought a
bottle it’s really really really
good have to see if I can get that um go
ahead
Carrie hey uh this was a lot of fun um
and um
I I’d actually tasted all these grapes
before but it was it was really cool to
uh to taste them again and to try them
with stuff I I randomly bought some
cheese from uh from Italy uh which is
also a good place to look for Italian
cheese pings I don’t know if I’ve ever
seen saroni
there but uh but uh one of the cheeses I
got was an borato which is an aged blue
um and the breta went really really well
with it um but that’s that’s a side note
that is not what I was um asking about
there so in terms of like uh you know
lesser known grapes not completely
forgotten but making a comeback grapes
there’s a a a Tuscan one called Folia
Tonda that I’m sure you guys know about
um but I’ve had that a couple times at
tastings and I really liked it and
evidently it’s something that’s been
recently revived is is that Chila is
that something that you you carry or you
know about
or I think I tried it once
um and I I don’t carry it um and um but
I I I do really enjoy uh kind of obscure
grapes so um you know so I uh what what
do you like about the
Fonda it’s it’s one of those ones that
manages to have it manages to be light
on its feet but it also has uh enough um
flavor to it it’s not overly tanic uh
it’s not you know it’s not it doesn’t uh
kind of Fade Away uh like some of uh of
these grapes do and uh it’s just it’s
just kind of a nice uh just like a nice
sidebar to sanjio you know it’s like
here here’s something a little a little
different but it would still appeal to
sanj levers um as well uh just wanted to
see if you knew about it or not
um straino was the name of the cheese I
was thinking of I think I’m frozen Oh no
you’re you’re not we got you but straino
Sheila that’s what I was thinking of
yeah not strella but straino oh
apparently she thinks she she can’t hear
us which is frustrating um
no it goes in and out
okay can you hear us now
apparently not um no it reminds me of a
pones wine I went visited a winery
called Vietti not Viti which is the more
famous One but the vetes and they
produce a grape called Alba Rosa which
uh is very obscure grown in pedmont um
but super delicious and makes wonderful
wonderful wines um also when I opened my
forgotten grapes wine shop one of my uh
distributors
who came in from Orange County to you
know congratulate me brought me a bottle
of uh veruna P which was another very
obscure uh Italian varal from the
pedmont uh era region up there in the
north so yeah there’s lots of obscure
things and it’s just a matter of you
know when you’re when you’re an importer
like Sheila kind of have to think what’s
going to sell you know um what can I
move you you can play the Obscure grapes
but it’s like you don’t want to be stuck
with something that only you love and
nobody else will so it’s it it it’s that
balance Italy is a is a fascinating
country with over a thousand grape
indigenous grape varieties of which
they’ve only
identified less than 500 and so there
are a lot of Forgotten grapes in that
country grapes that were almost extinct
grapes that have that someone found you
know like the famosa and other grapes
where they someone maintained a little
bit or others that have smaller a lot of
the red wines fell out of favor because
they were high in acidity and tannin and
body but they were very light in color
and there became a fad for more
intensity and color intensity
implied
um I don’t know something
that I don’t agree with but because I
think lighter colored red wines can have
lots of body texture but you know I
think that they fell out of favor and
they’re coming back and a lot of white
makers are starting to focus on them and
I think Sheila represents a lot of
brands that are you know bringing back
these grapes and these you know
celebrating these these grapes that are
that have a lot of
history like
frasia frasia skyo my favorite skino
have sko yes anyway the point is we need
more people like Sheila out there there
who are you know willing to take the
chance to bring in the Lesser known
obscure forgotten Grapes of Italy into
the United States and really introduce
them to people and introduce them to
places like us where we can help uh you
know send them off to the world and and
while Sheila will be back in Italy in
June next year maybe we’ll have some
Italian forgotten grapes at the
Forgotten grapes Festival perhaps if
Allison will allow because she has a
strict hand as to what can be
allowed well like we can have nebiolo
grown in California but we cannot have
neolo grown in pedmont that’s not a
forgotten
grape all right I think we will wrap it
up at this point um so keep an eye out
coming out the week of the 20th I
believe it will be um you’ll get emails
from Allison and I about our June Winery
which is a Santa Barbara Winery called
camons to dreams which we are very very
excited about um Tera Gomez who is the
wine maker at keetah Wines in Santa
Barbara which was the first uh Chumash
Indian tribe
owned uh Winery and she was the first
Native American wine maker female wine
maker female female yes thank you um and
her partner Mara terbo who’s Catalin uh
this is their brand amazing wines from
the Sanita Hills from Ballard Canyon
from all throughout Santa Barbara really
really excited about these wines they
are delicious interesting story so keep
an eye out for that
email um and Allison anything to add no
um if you haven’t bought your tickets
for festival forgotten grapes get them
tell your friends we hope to see you in
person at the end of June because
it’ll be fun after all this camera time
to I know when I ran into Matt at at
Peno Fest and in uh in Palm Springs lots
of trouble
ensued
yes but um no it’ll be really fun and we
hope to see
you see you in person and continue but
yes drink Italian
wine awesome all right we’ll see you all
in June hopefully uh early June for the
next forgotten grapes virtual tasting
and hopefully later in June for the
Festival of Forgotten grapes in Downtown
LA until then goodbye everybody take
care