DO YOU KNOW HOW TO ORDER AN ENJOYABLE AND AFFORDABLE BOTTLE OF WINE WHILE DINNING OUT?
Questions, concerns and conversations continually circle around ordering wine while dinning out! To tell the truth, I STILL feel intimated by the extensive wine lists I see at some restaurants! However, there’s a few basic rules I still follow to make the experience affordable and enjoyable!
Hello happy thirsty thursday to everybody i’m jen from wine antics i’m a certified advanced wine taster sharing the lighter side of the wine community with my followers on twitter facebook Instagram lab pretty much every social media you can find me on I’m joined here
Today by a stub from cork and be a great guy I can’t wait here all about him so why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself cool and stuff from court give me Comm do some blogging I do some filmmaking of make films about one basically and you know I enjoy wine yeah
And I’m glad to be here yes yes yes yes this is our second iteration of the I guess I’m gonna I’m just gonna coin the term the hashtag blab about wine all right I haven’t seen anybody do it and I think I think it’s smart hashtag and I’m
Obsessed with hashtags I don’t disagree thank you very much so today we are blabbing about line and about some wine buying tips well dining out and this is namely restaurants um want to help you as a consumer be a smarter and better wine buyer when you go out I’ve created
Three tips uh that are key takeaways from from me and I would say stuff has probably about three other interesting tips that I didn’t even think about I mean just having this conversation we start to think about things from a different perspective so that’s why I really love lab and getting on here
Laughing about wine absolutely so I don’t know if you wanted to start it off oh I’ll leave it to you kick it off okay you made your pretty charts and everything that’s so jeans see what you hear me if I can figure out how to do
This well you can start with that or just start ranting about it um why don’t you the first tip I have is uh if you’re if you can you know by the bottle skip the tip that skip the glass by the bottle and for me I know that we’re going to
Talk about the markups and that’s really where that tip comes from um it if you have to two people two people two glasses of wine each a bottle is a solid purchase general rule of thumb generally the total bottle of the wine is in the single glass of one so if a restaurant
Uh if a restaurant is going to sell the glass they want to make sure that they make up the entire cost of the bottle by just one glass so you’re fifteen dollar Chardonnay in DC cuz that happens um cost no more than fifteen dollars retail for them that got me when I first
Learned that I was like yep never i’m gonna i’m only going to order wine on special occasions by the glass and it better be something super obscure and unique um otherwise if I have one other friend which I usually do I’m buying the bottle totally agree with that if more
Than one person is going to have a glass of wine because that’ll turn into a second glass of wine generally yes um and you’re gonna have the same one I want the same wine by the bottle it’s almost always gone um it’s almost always worth it I’m going to assume that we’re
Still on and jen has just lost yourself familiar um see if I can do that’s where did she go all right um there she is so there you are did you kick yourself I actually did when we try to show a bigger in the drop in any link here he’s
Like okay so I’ll just drop in the the tip the little graphic I made and apparently it doesn’t work that way oh well I was basically echoing what you were saying about the if you’re gonna have more than one glass by the bottle and get someone else if it’s just you
Drinking the wine get someone else to help you with the bottle because economically it is going to work look at that it looks like it’s coming something’s out no I didn’t mean to do that yeah that’s a good set and pretty simple i think it’s simple economics if you’re gonna
Sit there now good time with someone and you know you’re gonna order more wine just buy the bottle o on be done with it it’s four and a half glasses of wine come on organ finish that between two people or if you’re greedy just a solid
For lots of wine yeah yeah but do you think that is do you think that if you order by the glass you get more than the average poor cuz i feel so it depends on the restaurant maybe and what their goal is and probably the level of one you’re
Ordering and what kind of system they’re using if they’re pointing straight from the bottle maybe you’ll get a little bit more if they have one of those fancy shmancy systems to keep everything corked and or from corking or from going bad then they probably have more exact
Force from that yeah because not like a sort of found those things are generally going to be governed some house so they can only poor it so much but yeah well I same line you kind of talked about markups as well on the wine which I’d
Like to go a little further when you’re at a restaurant and depending at the level of restaurant that you’re in markups on more expensive bottles of wine are generally smaller than that so if you’re in a really nice place with a really nice wine list and you want to
Try 1996 first growth from Bordeaux um if you have the cash to spend on it it’s probably worth it if you think the meal is going to hold up to that now I’ve never personally done that but I have been in restaurants with wine lists where you know there’s a bottle that you
Can get for like a first-growth Bordeaux for thirteen hundred dollars which is a lot of money for a bottle of wine but if you look at it after the fact or look at it online you’re going to see that that bottle is probably going for you know
About that in the market anyway so it’s always good to look for those hidden gems and if you’re inclined to spend a little more in a bottle of wine at a nicer place you’re probably going to get a better deal on than you would otherwise it’s it’s still
Hard even so my my limit for buying out on a bottle tends to be no more than fifty dollars God and that’s probably the range and under that you’re getting the most robust markup because people right restaurants are smart they know that people have their you know imaginary psychological limits so I
Think that may be safely we’re just estimating here probably you’re getting a better margin towards the consumer north of fifty dollars versus Sal hundred fifty dollars as a tip you know absolutely um I found it’s been about a month and a half ago we’re out to dinner with my in-laws replaced in
Fredericksburg and I saw a gem of a second hearth bottle on the wine list and it was a vintage I’d never had that I wanted to try so we ordered the bottle and the bottle itself was as much as the meal um which is crazy but it’s but at
The same time there are places that because this is you know not the most common bottle floating around still this the owner wine director acquired a couple bottles of it and was selling it and you know I I got a pretty good deal on that wine you’ve even compared to
Like going on and find someone to sell out a bottle and buying it from a private collector I basically paid about the same price and honestly that steak was probably better than a steak I would have made it home so for me that was worth doing ought to try vintage I never
Tried try something that I you know would love to try and it’s a wine that I have a history without trying several vintages of it but this was a you know pre-2000 vintage that we got honestly for a song even though is expensive but you know even getting back to that fifty
Dollar level which first I know a lot of people are still in expensive bottle of wine um yeah you’re the higher you get though the better deal generally you’re going to get I don’t know if that’s always true but it a pretty good rule of thumb from what I found now it’s it’s
Funny to compare because I’ve heard the range of restaurant markups from a hundred percent on the low end of a bottle 300 pay my rent exactly and DC is a unique place because they can get their bottles directly from the producers correct so they’re the restaurants in DC
If they’re picking it up from the actual winery they’re getting even more of a profit because that markup is after you know being sold by a wholesaler and absolutely i’ll also say if you’re out and you know if you have even a close to moderate knowledge of wine it’s probably
Better in restaurants to order things if your knowledge is maybe not even average or below average it’s probably better to order ones that you don’t know yeah because if you order a bottle of yellow tail shiraz my question um or shiraz as they say took down under you’re gonna
Pay so much more for that bottle because the name recognition that you are for probably a competitively priced bottle that let’s be honest more likely is gonna be a little bit better but you know it’s also good to do that which I think leads us if I can make this
Transition one that Utley into asking for help when ordering wine at a restaurant so what are your thoughts on that jam well that is actually a good transition for both of us because that’s my tip number two or three I can’t remember what guys are you bring up I
Was like oh I made all these nifty little graphics for everybody and of course I don’t know how to do that I’ll have to watch more blabs in order to learn how to do that um let me see it is uh no it is tip number three and it’s
For me it’s half direction take direction like that’s that’s the the catchphrase to this tip um I will definitely believe in asking for help um sometimes though it can be misguided because the server depending on the level of restaurant that you’re at has less y knowledge than you do they may be
18 years old and have never had any experience so that’s why i say have direction have at least a couple flavors expectation that you have um and then being a sense of where the person who’s going to recommend wines for you where they are on the spectrum of wine
Knowledge so just like you know buyer beware have a little bit of knowledge going in of what you like and then you know gauge the person and if they have more knowledge ask more records and I think that’s great I think getting into not even fine dining but nicer places
That are past like a you know red lobster or something I don’t expect my server at Red Lobster to know a whole lot about wine other than the list they have and I also don’t expect to go into a chain casual dining restaurant and find some gym battle’s either um but
Even like local places um you know that are single location restaurants um especially here you know i live in alexandria so old town there’s a ton of those and some of these places there are still well priced for the food you get and they have nice wine lists that are
Put together very well don’t be afraid to ask the server or have them depending on the place and the bartender over you may know more or if they have a song or a wine director on staff don’t ever be afraid to ask them over now when you’re
Maybe a nicer place where there’s an actual wine list separate from menu if there’s a wine director or psalm and if they’re working that night and see you rifling through the list they may come over and offer help but if you identify someone that may be a song or a wine
Director and you have any questions about anything don’t be afraid to ask or ask the server because if that person is on staff are on duty that night and you don’t know it they’re going to send them over to help you out so it is that it is
A good idea to number one and the two questions that they’re probably going to ask you is what what do you normally drink haha and ass amor y director will probably ask you for a price point as well which is great um those are both
Very very good things to know um and if you say you don’t know most most of those those women or men will you know kind of see that you’re like oh I don’t know what number to throw out I don’t want to say thirty dollars and seem
Cheap but I don’t want to say two thousand because i’m not spending two grand on a bottle by tonight so those are good things to know and just answer honestly and if you don’t know just say hey i don’t know i don’t want to spend too much but i want
A decent bottle and then they may ask you what you’re planning to order as well which are all appropriate questions and just answer them honestly those people are very much there to help even though if you know less about line well you definitely probably know less about
Wanting them but at the same time it you know they’re going to give you some good information yes even if you know less about why and they’re going to give you get information about what may be their deals are or what’s going to be good for your table who is maybe less experienced
With Juan and if you know more about one they’re going to be able to interact with you and really pin down something that is maybe a gem on their list that you’re not going to see and if you know it’s a wine list of you know 600 bottles
I mean you know I’ve annoyed the hell out of waiters and wine directors or Psalms before really pouring over a wine list good uh when I sit down um I try to if I know I’m going somewhere look at the wine list before I go so I have an
Idea of maybe what they have and then I still flipped through it and if it’s similar than I’m glad but I don’t know there’s there’s no shame in asking for help regardless of your level of knowledge or experience with one and let’s demystify the fact of what what
Psalms are I need songs are not people that are you know Ivy League born and this is just what they’re doing because their parents have told them to do do it socks are dedicated professionals if you show like any kind of white knowledge they are like yes you’re in the old you
Know you know a little bit your come you’re meeting me halfway or quarter of the way just like going to a foreign country and learn and knowing towards of a foreign language all right they love this they have paid for this education just to be at that restaurant to serve
You and help you pick a better wine absolutely so what if Jen I mean probably most of us have this experience any even myself I mean you go into a restaurant there’s a wine list and you know you have a server um you know and
What do you do if you feel like that server doesn’t really know a lot about the wine their arm you know how do you handle how would you hand that if you have questions about the wine list so it’s just like the picking and choosing of my wine tonight which we
Forgot to do but we could do that later it’s it snowing going down the list and you know if you’re just buying for somebody that has a similar palate as you add in your group you learn I learned the basics of you know what type
Of what type of wine i like i like dry reds I like big fruit okay so I try to go find out where in the world are those characteristics um and then I learned like I know I like Zinfandel I know I like California Zinfandel so I’ll go
Down the list and just like it’s it’s like deductive reasoning process of elimination I know I don’t like this I know that this is not going to be a crowd-pleaser I know that this is a yellow tail wine and the markup isn’t saying on that so I’m not going to drink
That here um but just knowing what you like and the what varietal grows in the right area helps ready to navigate the brands that are on the line okay that’s that’s a good answer yeah I will ally by over here I’m going to transition that into we kind of chat about and prep
Talking about wine list themselves and kind of how they’re organized and what they mean um I’ve noticed a lot of restaurants especially the last couple years are organizing their wine list according to flavor profiles mmm mmm mmm rather than here’s Bordeaux here’s Italy here’s America here’s California reds or
Whatever they’re going by you know fun frizzy whites with a little sweetness or dry whites or big bold reds um i think for a lot of people that’s very helpful especially when you have less experience with wine I think those types of lists are really really helpful for people
Especially if they’re not huge huge list or maybe especially if they’re really big list that a restaurant has what do you think of that I mean do you do you as a wine professional prefer that type of list or would you prefer just to say all right here’s
Italy and all the you know areas there here’s france and all the areas and here’s the US and all the areas you have a preference or like for looking at a wine list on that so if i if I’m just going with one of my girlfriends that I
Know enjoys the wine so let me let me eliminate the fact that there’s going to be six different palates around the table sure sure um I still be heard that because I don’t know everything like that that wine list some of those wine lists can be amazingly daunting and just
Just like finding every shoe in the world on the list and you don’t know so if you give me something to categorize broadly categorized okay this is light and citrusy ah this is a bold and okie this is spicy in the red family at least
That I know what to expect on my palate and grew and then I can start to make the decision from a pocketbook perspective okay so i will i’m gonna agree with you if I’m with a group of people I enjoy that a lot um or if it’s
You know I what I really cuz I’m such a geek about wine I love geeking out over a nice wine list oh and i kind of i personally prefer you know where you have the region’s and then you know the countries in the region is listed um and
Just for me i feel like i know enough about most of those that i can generally guess as well now when i’m with the large group of people and they all look at me and okay stop your wine guy picked some watch so now you’ve got a lot of
Pressure on ya so in that sense I you know depending on who’s there I actually know some of those ballots because we go out these people somewhat regularly but if I don’t I’ll say hey what you know I’ll ask what does everyone wants to eat
Or what I really do and this is a great stalling technique if you’ve been designated as the wine order really every time just order it just tell everyone we need to have a cocktail before dinner and have a mortar a cocktail and then you sit with the wine
List and wait for everyone to actually order their meals and then try to one that will match that ha hey welcome Chris um I I think and that’s a good stalling technique however if you get somebody a cocktail like a heavy experience level cocktail first I feel
Like it’s if you’re getting a nicer bottle of wine it may kind of ruin that between the taste I think another technique while you’re trying to go down the wine list and figure out the best wine for that steak for that um chicken dish is over bubbly because that’s
That’s when it’s best served you know as an aperitif I will also agree with that I’ve done that a whole lot where I’ll say you know what hey we’re gonna order this bottle of you know cremant or bottle of Prosecco or bottle of champagne or whatever that is also good
If people don’t want cocktails or you know but you see people sit down and like ah you know we’re just sat down we’re all chatting we hadn’t see each other in a month so um st. hey everyone order a beer a cocktail or something else and I’m gonna order some wine after
We were a few um now the people that I might cumin yeah always are these bubbles miller lite unix that’s good that’s alright that’s alright nothing wrong with it nothing with that at all um but on the topic of trying to not not even having to stall before you get into
The restaurant my tip number two is actually check out the wine list online some of the great the the great wine list like people that care to craft their wine list they’re going to have that online it even if they it written if it’s like it a middle-range
Restaurant they’re going to have their whole menu online and sometimes that includes their wine list you know check it out online go through and you know if it’s summertime you can assume and you know in the early evening that people are probably going to order lighter dishes they’re gonna order some salads
And chicken and some fish because it’s it’s the season it’s the time of day if it’s expensive we’re going out we’re dressing up we’re going to have a steak place you can narrow down to probably Reds for the team so it’s I feel like the wine list in
General is just a giant process of like elimination it really is and it takes time and some people don’t like taking that time and I get that they’re like I want a glass of wine before we eat I want a glass of wine on the food and
Yeah whatever lets get some wine and that’s great um but this there’s a restaurant that we visit two or three times a year and I will actually call and talk to the manager of that restaurant have them email me their wine list because it is not online ok so I’ll
Have them email me their current list of a day or two or even the day of um so I’ll do that and see but this is also a restaurant where they have a large wine list and once again I can also pre check up some prices on ones that I think I
Might like to order that night I can see what vintages of wines that I know they always have their available oh because maybe I don’t wanna 2012 of napa high anything because that was not a great year so I’m like all right I’m not going
To new 2012 but they have the Elevens or they have the you know whatever so it’s a good it’s a good way to go to check that out beforehand and it’s just like anything else especially to the new place I mean you try to check out their
Menu online I kind of see what what they’re about how they operate what the dishes are you know what what style they you know what style of cooking they do so yeah there’s that South Dakota I’ve never had wine from South Dakota I have
To admit but I mean Ohio is growing it I just had an amazing sparkling from Illinois Indiana Wisconsin every state has no not having us console oh that is true yeah I’m trying to taste my way through all of them I I will yes Texas saritas about tied with the Virginia as
Far as production right now so we’re tied with Texas for about fifth in production in the country and they are starting to figure out especially the hill country to get a little off topic here um that they you know that some of those southern Mediterranean varietals are doing really really well tat around
Austin area he said what part of Texas so the crepes are in Texas are mostly grown in the hill country around Austin so if you make a triangle from austin and san antonio kind of west kind of that area and maybe a little bit north and then they’re also growing a goodly
Number of grapes up in the plains so around Amarillo up in there I don’t have an app for that day that’s all right everybody knows Texas there right like that’s the whole thing and oh nice Chris I grew up and I grew up outside of Dallas originally actually and in Texas
Has a huge long Spanish history and religious history of growing growing wine and growing grapes for religious purposes and then um it’s no surprise that they’re really pretty far up there in the production of scale yeah plus there’s just so much land there and right people are people are going to
Start doing things spray and with the way the hill country gets their reign here and there it’s a good good place to grow grapes all right there’s a saginaw texas there’s a Saginaw Michigan to there is a saginaw texas I know where Saginaw uh Chris I think right I grew up
In irving actually many moons ago well not that money means a couple of minutes yeah i just also wanted to say hey to Peter who’s joined us I appreciate that feel free to ask any questions we’re just giving some tips about dining out and being a smart consumer and a savvy
Buyer um we just finished up with wine lists um I don’t think I had anything else to add just definitely checking it out beforehand is going to give you as the designee of the by the wines but it’ll also we kind of mentioned price points um more wines I am a huge shopper
When it comes to prices and I cheat by using vino not only at restaurants but like at trader joe’s at total wine I’m sitting there snapping the picture I want to see what other people are putting for this wine become solutely the the price range is not by county
Not by state not even by a retail facility or restaurant it’s by distributor like the people that are giving them the one and it could be just that one bottle may have a higher markup on that she so it’s really it’s really good to do a little homework if you’re
Going to invest this much money into a bottle of wine at a restaurant it’s just my opinion that’s just my tip yeah I don’t I don’t look I don’t have any problem with that um no my theory is if I go to a restaurant I should be able to
Afford or anything I want from that menu at that time um so it’s neutral blush instead um so I try to tell people like I try to understand where I’m going but that said even if I’m going off our nice reveal since I’m in a nice replace some
Of the bottles on that list are going to be way more than I’m get us back um absolutely so that can be intimidating for some people um like I said I mentioned a couple months back when out of my in-laws and I ordered a bottle of wine and my father-in-law almost lost
His marbles um when he found out what that bottle of wine cos we ordered but once again it was kind of a special occasion so I was I was fine with doing that and I kind of got the idea even though we had never been to this place
Before just from walking in and being seated that they were going to do a pretty good job of cooking up to that level of wine as well which is always something I consider to once again I’m not going to get a red lobster in order first-growth Bordeaux that’s just
Ridiculous it also probably I’m going to relax her for some fried shrimp on in a couple of beers not four or maybe a la serena not so i can have a nice steak in red wine right way particular against range restaurant exactly kiala wrap and over sweet and sour mix for your lobster
Reason but for a dollar more you can take that class home with you I’m just saying um Chris asked the question of you know how do you where do you start out when he’s telling he’s recommending people start with them with a flush okay I’m up to the red I actually don’t recommend
A blush to start out with um people’s palates vary so much in the beginning but a general of thumb people tend to accept sweeter wines in the beginning and then make their natural progression to drier and some people may even feel blush is too dry so no not even a
Zinfandel not even a white zinfandel which I know what you’re talking about in the blush all right never a wizened adjust no no are you saying blushes in a rose a isn’t a pink wine period or in a very sweet pink wine I’m just trying to understand what he’s saying there um so
I get I get the point in what you said Jenna I totally agree with people who aren’t why people will generally accept a little sweeter wine um and since I’ve been around wine for a good bit I have a pretty good also trick if you get a really fruit-forward dry wine the people
Think it’s sweet people are going to think it’s sweet and you’re going to trick them into loving already trying different things out but yeah I totally get now look in a bar especially if there’s a lot of Cooter’s at your bar you totally have to have the white Zin
And yeah feed those Cougars white zin all night or you know let let their young boy toys by my zune all night because I mean you know you’re there to put food on the table so sell the hell out of the white zin dude like I got no
Problem that I think he’s actually business is business I think he’s actually talking now more of the new friend of pink bubbles like the pink Moscato I’m seeing a lot of those those type of things because that’s what I think a pig pescado and that tends to be
Sweetened as well hi Jerry welcome um what’s weird there’s nothing wrong with starting them they’re definitely people like this sweeter like I said people like the sweet or palate in the beginning because it’s an easy transition um and that can come in white or or blush and it can even come in red
Nowadays it can come in fruit because there’s fruit yeah so there’s a rain to get people into but if you bring it back to restaurants and you want to get you know if your designated ordering wine um order something that’s a little more fruit forward um you know get a yes
You know get a warm here get a warm your cab get a get a Zinfandel ah um you know that that you think I mean depending on where it is I mean some of those can get a little earthy as well depending on where they are now their farm but you
Know get some of those bigger fruit ones ah Merlot is actually pretty good too depending on where it is armed I think across the board if you’re trying to introduce someone to 2 Reds and they think they don’t like sweet Red’s I think Washington state is almost always
Okay um their cabs their suroz and their Zinfandels there are generally going to be a little bit fruitier a little bit bolder or depending on where it’s produced and how its produced it may have a little bit less acid which freaks people out to you because that acid
Sometimes makes people think that it’s a little more sour or alcohol heavy than it is and they shy away from it even though at a restaurant acid is awesome for food pairing pretty much across the board um but yeah duh that’d be my thing on that we’re going back and forth years
Over love from Washington come watch top you know and I love Washington wines but do you see them that often online lists I mean besides like a reasoning I seen Rieslings from Washington quite often but then it goes right to like a peas from Oregon and a Pinot Noir from Oregon
Yeah you’re going to see that uh so the Washington wines if you see Washington wines you’re going to see King family who is mostly going to be the Pinot Gris of the Chardonnay you’re gonna see probably Charles Smith uh who if you’re in the wine shop has basically the black
Labels with are the white labels with the black kind of Old English writing on them armed and they’re really awesome that guy actually he looks like a slightly heavier Sammy Hagar um which is pretty awesome we never did the introduction oh and I have so much light
No no yeah Charles Smith is amazing and he’s funnier in Hell’s what and his second label Charles and Charles and I can’t remember the other Charles his name right now he actually looks a little bit like David Lee Roth’s these guys look like rock stars making wine
That is very very well priced um and it’s really nice one in the charles smith p he does a lot of stuff in columbia valley which is a favorite a VA of mine actually and if you make that fruit right you get big round awesome
Fruit and you get the acid on it as well and it’s amazing so someone asks we were drinking sorry i I’m drinking the I don’t know am I getting kitsy light sorry trying to turn it does he like you got going on I know as well its natural
Light coming through my garage windows garage door windows I’m drinking the Johan vineyards 2012 Pinot Noir this is their Nils vineyard a designation which is the highest think its eastern facing slope on their on their property there oh so they have a huge property and then designate their vineyards of the noles
Vineyard has a lot of concentration the fruit so you’re getting the Willamette taste you’re getting a little bit of earthiness but man you’re getting a really big round bottom and a fruit on this really really amazing one I think this goes for about 40 bucks a bottle um
Which is which I gotta say for a well-made they are small producer but it’s a really really well-made limit Latino that who can compete the castle she read my face and she knew exactly what I was thinking I was like sure box arena head I had three bottles on the
Shelf I decided to open one without deeply special now because you open one of what i would consider the good bottles on the mint ya know yeah I’m not yeah I don’t yeah I’ll agree with that but no it’s a nice wine I just want to
Try it I had three bottles I think I brought this back like a year and a half ago when I was out there and I wanted to try one so so yeah what the hell let’s open this and see what happens um but yeah it’s a nice little wine and for 40
Bucks it’s actually a pretty good it’s pretty good value compared to some of the higher-end lamet valley wineries you get a lot of the same kind of things same qualities in there and it’s pretty awesome hi okay um I see your questions and we’re definitely going to get to a
Minute a little bit we’re actually gonna open the seat up so you can come on in and chat with us Chris if you’re serious about me picking a line out um you’re gonna be in trouble just say ah Alex I am super impressed with trader joe’s reserved and also their Black Label
Anywhere from ten to fifteen dollars definitely a higher quality than what I see at the definitely two buck chuck range and then even up to ten dollars but we still have at least two more topics to talk about when dining out how do what we have a wine presentation and
Then I want to save your tips for being the designated wine shopper okay last one good so why presentation what do you got on that uh well uh I still feel awkward even though I know what I saw if you get go to a restaurant and you have
A wine professional there which doesn’t always have to be a song it could be somebody but that’s in my range that has is an advanced wine taster on that works in a restaurant and then all of a sudden becomes the designated you know Psalm without paying a solemn um I still feel
Awkward when they’re like would you like to taste the bottle would you like to work would you like to like I know that it’s the right thing and it’s etiquette I just right I even feel awkward so if anybody else does it’s it’s it’s fine
Just go with it cuz it’s it’s really a nice gesture to still have so depending on whom out with I’m number one almost always the picker of the one so I will do that and I i am very hell-bent on a proper wine presentation when I order a
Bottle okay whether it’s an inexpensive bottle or not if I’m a place where the server’s bring me the wine that’s great but I also feel like if you’re serving balls on your servers should generally know and get the wine presentation part of things correct which is cool that intimidate some people and it
Intimidates um like especially what’s get talked about being out with my in-laws um you know my in-laws did not grow up ordering bottles of wine at restaurants um they’re great intelligent educated people but that’s just not what they did so when I order wine a lot of
Times if I’m with people who don’t understand what’s going on I will explain the process as the server or saw more wine director is is doing it and what it does is instead of everyone else chatting and me trying to pay attention to the wine presentation it brings
Everyone in and it puts the server or wine director or sommat ease a little bit um and puts me at ease and I’m kind of explaining what’s going on and it gives them a way to engage the table as well so I find that that’s really
Important um and real quick I mean the quick steps if I can go through that yeah I mean obviously on that part um so wine presentation it’s so simple it’s you know it’s not the scariest thing ever you order a bottle of wine the server or whoever serving it to you
Comes over and shows you the bottle they’re showing you the label so you can say yes that is the bottle of wine that I ordered so if you order a 2010 Pinot Noir from lamb at Valley and they bring you a 2011 you could say nope that’s not
The bottle that was on the menu and then you can discuss if you still want that bottle but they’re showing you that label so you can just assure them that that’s what you work if you order a ribeye steak and you get a chicken dish delivered to you that’s not what you are
It’s the same thing is that so if you ordered a steak and you get chicken you’re going to say oh I’m sorry this is not what I ordered it’s the same thing for that part of it so then they’re going to open the bottle and they’re
Going to show you the court and present it to you now should you smell that court because this is the biggest question I ever get yeah yeah you can if you want but you know it’s going to smell like it’s gonna smell like wine in court so it’s not gonna it’s probably
Not going to tell you much of a whole lot about that line unless it’s actually bad well it’s just so good I do a good smell but the bigger reason for them presenting the cork to you is not so you can smell it and act like you know what
You’re doing if you don’t it’s so you can examine the court and see if there is wine going all the way to what should have been was the top of that court before they pulled it out of the bottle because that would be evidence of a faulty Corp so
Now if the cork is fine and there’s wine only half hour even three quarters of way up depending on how old that wine is so you know that’s good to go um so then they pour the wine for you and they stand there holding the label in front
Of you while you supposedly swirl and you smell and then you finally sip so what are they waiting on for this they’re not waiting on you to tell them if you liked it look if you don’t like it you don’t you don’t like it that’s on
You what they’re waiting for is for you to determine if you think that bottle is good or bad like has that bottle corked has it been oxidized um not liking it is not a reason to send a bottle back they’re counting on a person who orders
A bottle to sort of know what they’re doing and if the bottle is bad in some way shape or form or spoiled then you can say huh I think there’s something wrong with this and either the server or the wine director or the manager restaurant will then come over and taste
It and nine times out of ten unless you order a two-thousand-dollar bottle and you’re just being asked they’re probably going to agree with you and get you another bottle either of that same wine or offering you to order something else and then once you say yeah you’re good
To go they should go around the table um depending on the restaurant you’re in and how you’re seated uh you know proper etiquette would be to serve the women first but generally they’ll do that they’ll leave the serve women first I’ll just go around the table and the person
Who ordered the one is going to get the last port and that’s it that’s what they’re asking you there um it’s not it’s not rocket science it’s not the most complicated thing engage them talk to them ask them questions once again they’re people and they’re serving you
So people liked them and respectful and just know those quick processes I’m sorry didn’t mean it takes a long no no it’s fine and Syreeta who’s here at vine me up actually put out a really great YouTube video where she had a professional wine fault a person up in
Either New York or Canada I can’t remember girls gone girls gone grape she can correct anyway um she so that whole segment is all about wine pulp so if you have the nerdy interest to get into that aspect definitely go check her out um there was another point that you brought
Up about tableside service and that was should you tip the song so this is this is a huge question so number one I mean in my opinion and there’s there’s different thoughts on this but I think fairly generally um if a psalm has helped you choose a bottle and actually
Come and serve you the bottle you should consider tipping now depending on the restaurant you can get a little bit of an idea of how that restaurant works um you know is the sum the Psalms probably going around several tables if you’re a nice enough restaurant where they have a
Song with the wine director actually serving wine that people were so if you order a bottle of wine from your server and then someone else comes and presents it to you that is the solemn and they’re doing that now did they deserve it too it depends on the restaurant um it’s you
Know that’s it that’s an iffy thing um the general rule of thumb that I follow is if I get a specific song that is not my server come and serve me um if I have an ability to go tip that person somewhat discreetly on my way out or at
Some point I will try to do that um it is also not improper to ask your server um if they split tips or if they tip out the Psalms or wine directors that night um because they did provide you a service they did help you pick and then
Pour and then come and check on your wine I have been restaurants for the otha songs or wine directors floating around and the server doesn’t come and pour more wine when you’re empty from your bottle the psalm will come around and do that and that’s their sole job is
To do that in present wine so in that case you know a tip is not uncalled for um but it’s generally unless you’re in the nicest nicest of places not required but do keep in mind that probably your server is tipping them out so keep that
In mind when you’re tipping at the end of your meal all right I had never actually considered that nor had I considered engaging the entire table in the process of wine service which definitely breaks down the silence that there is between the table and the server as he goes through that and that
I think most awkward part of it it’s like what do you say do you say thank right do you everyone’s looking at it like dance for us monkey dance no can you get that cork out of there anything you would be to it really probably really cares about what you’re
When you’re ordering and what he’s presenting rates going to school each paid lots of money for the training yes so this whole thing it’s definitely I need to be more of a proactive wine enthusiast and break the ice gauge the entire table oh and I go back to this
Couple months ago we ordered this nice bottle with my in-laws out for dinner and once again I was our anniversary and birthday celebrations for my father-in-law so you know once again Orion the size bottle is great but it was an older bottle and I ordered it and
The the server went and told the manager owner or the owner that we had ordered it he’s a certified psalm of the restaurant he pushed he personally came presented the wine to us very nice so it was very fun talking to him about a um
An older wine when he came over and then joking with him and talking to him as he’s like all right this court may be a little soft because this is an older of attention can we get it out and I’m like oh this is the best worst part of your
Job so now I’m making fun of the guy a little bit you know playfully of course saying oh man you really don’t want to shatter that cork in this bottle do you because guess what you’re screwed not me and he’s like yeah exactly so but he really appreciated that as well I think
He number one appreciated that that someone was in the restaurant that knew that bottle and ordered it and he you know then we talked about the bottle and he came by several times and it was a great experience with that um in that way but yeah engaging them whether
Whether dealing with you it’s it’s it’s pretty easy it’s just like anything else you know it’s pretty awesome yeah and um yeah I completely agree completely agree i I’ve really run into a couple songs and sums around the world are changing they’re not this stuffy stereotype that people are educated with 30 years
They’re younger than I am now right and there’s a passionate enthusiastic and want to be a normal person with you kick around but they also want to be geeky so yeah it pays to be a little geeky when you’re a person that much I’m wine awkward um when you
Can have a completely different experience based on that right so we kind of got on this topic talking about tipping um songs the only other thing I would say is you know a lot of people ask me sometimes if you buy an expensive bottle of wine should you tip the you
Know fifteen to eighteen to twenty percent on that especially if you’re tipping the psalm himself or herself and I think a general thumb is if you’re just tipping the psalm some people say that ten percent is a low blow but average standard of that um but you know
Tiff whatever you feel compelled to but if you are tipping separately you know some people are like hey its twenty bucks the open a bottle or whatever whatever it is um so you know there’s not a lot of hard and fast rules about that there’s some etiquette there’s some
But it’s getting so different now because you are in different places where I can go get it you know most of my main entrees cost less than twenty bucks but I can order a two hundred fifty dollar bottle of wine you know how do you reconcile those two things for
Tipping um just maybe kind of use your head but I would say if you want to tip on a more expensive bottle one with a what most people would consider an average price meal um tip whatever percentage you’re going to tip on the meal and then it tip at least ten
Percent on your wine purchase especially if you bought a bottle on someone’s presenting it to you because they did they did and especially if they helped you pick it out I don’t know that’s kind of my thoughts on it I think it’s a hybrid of what the going thoughts are on
This whole process of tipping well and I and I appreciate you telling me stories I would never thought I’ve never I kind of just auto always automatically assume that they’re getting part of the waitresses tips on oh it’s at least if you’re not comfortable doing it in the beginning it’s worth something
Boring at each individual restaurant just asking the question hey I really appreciated um the the gentleman the Psalms the experience wine professional service today and he picked an amazing wine for this memorable dinner what is your tipping policy kind of thing exactly so I have asked that once and
Been told hey you know we take care of our songs we take care of our wide wrecker who’s doing the wine and then I have tipped one other time but I have asked several times I’ve asked a couple times you know what’s your tipping policy here you know John or Janet came
And opened in porter wine force do you know and they and most the time its most of the time I mean the less you’re in ensue / / exclusive place but then even if you are now you’re getting to a point where i think i’m pretty sure that i
Read that per se in new york now which is which got trashed last late last fall um but you know it’s a hugely expensive dinner where two people go eat for fifteen hundred dollars like it’s stupid expensive but I think they’re now even going past the tipping model so you’re
Gratuities are included with your meal I believe I read that if I didn’t anyone knows that saw me but so there are some of these places that are going to that on that model so it is confusing for a consumer and especially with the wine part like people are so afraid of wine
Now like we’re not afraid steaks like we’re not afraid like the last people like hey what’s the what’s the cut of the steak is that a bone-in ribeyes in filet like we’ll ask anything about that hey I don’t want that’s asparagus because that stuff is awful like
Whatever we’re not afraid to say that but then we won’t speak up about wine and I think that’s part of I think you use the term earlier gin demystifying things like you know don’t be afraid of it because it’s something you don’t know um if you don’t know what a parsnip is
Asking what parsnips are and what they taste like and you know the server is going to tell you or they going to send the chef’s out or whatever like you’re not afraid to ask any of those things and you’re not gonna order things that you don’t know or aren’t concerned that
You would like on your plate what’s the difference between that and why like don’t be afraid to engage especially if you’re in a place that has professionals that are trying to do that or for the right price point and the uniqueness of the fine just try to you we don’t like it
Absolutely honest and say you don’t buy the glass I wouldn’t do it as often buy the bottle right by the glass if you want to hate I want to give this a try it sounds really you um it’s at the right price point for my pocketbook can
I try this and even better if you just want to try a sample of it yeah they they are absolutely no harm in asking to read if you try a sample of it so I do that a lot I honestly oh absolutely honestly Strikemaster three different
Wines before I see a glass and if they say we don’t do that then they don’t do it and who cares yeah like no harm no harm in asking no so the only I I also want to say one of one other thing about one service um it is also customary
Especially we have a song or even a waiter and you order a baller bottle of wine at your dinner it’s customary to offer them a taste of that one I had yeah I something I forgot to add and it’s even more customary and we could talk about this very very briefly um if
You bring your own bottle in and get a corkage fee on why so different states have different laws on what corkage fees can or should be um but if you take a bottle of wine in it is almost necessary that you offer your server or the psalm
That comes and opens that bottle for you a tasting or why now they’re not going to pour themselves a 5 ounce glass you want they’re going to pour a half to three quarter ounce pour and some of the most some if not most will decline that because maybe they’re not going to do
That for four tables while they’re yang that night but it’s customary to do that and if you order a really awesome bottle in a restaurant it’s still considered proper etiquette to at least offer so the saab or why director or even waiter can rifa militarize themselves with that
One that they’re pouring for you as well if it’s been a while since they’ve had it so that’s that’s another thing with that so do you do that before you do your sip as the taster or ah no you you wait until they generally I think I
Think this is correct sounds all I’ve always done it either way is you know they pour everyone and you just remind them hey um you know please feel free to have a have a taste of this oh why so I’ve been to dinners with others where we’ve taken
Five bottles of wine to a restaurant um so in that case like you have to let these people know what you’re yeah what they’re pouring for you um you know but I’ve also been a restaurants where I’ve ordered a nicer bottle older vintage you know you always make a point but I
Generally do it after they poured my wine as the person ordering it and then you had the presentation presented to them um I try to do it at that point st. you know you know if you if you would like please please feel free to have
Taste and they always do I mean not always and someone will decline some of them will pour some and whether they taste or not doesn’t matter but it’s always nice to offer I bet when you’re building in a bottle cork what like if you’re going to have it uncorked and
You’re going to experience it add in the restaurant why not as a presidency like not only are you trying it for me and I appreciate that but now you’re getting to share in this experience a little bit and expand your palate yeah and that if you brought the bottle in it is almost
Considered a huge faux pas you don’t offer whoever open whoever did the wine presentation for you like it like to me that would be really really rude to not only Stauffer know if they decline they decline that’s fine once again I mean you’re in even you can do this evenin
Middling restaurants as well no I mean middling price restaurants i say not necessarily middling as in not good but niggling as in you know price of these restaurants right okay so I’ve never taken a bottle of wine or lobster once again I’ve depend on the lobster ritas order special hurricane drinks just damn
It I’m paying a dollar more taking a glass on I just saying I have a whole collection over here in this cabinet behind me all of the Red Lobster especially glasses I have well we’re coming towards the the top of the hour yes we’re going on here and there was
Only one other thing on the tips list and that’s the beating the wine the first that designates the line for the table any tips on how to get through that because God knows if you express any kind of inclination for why you get dubbed the official wine buyer for the
Table I still struggle with this I’m not even gonna lot why so because the people that are immediate to make you the the wine purchaser tend to be the most novice and they explain they tend to be the most um they don’t know the value of purchasing the bottle okay and it’s not
That they don’t enjoy the wine because I can I can get two things from each person like what do you prefer do you like red or white or do you like fruit forward or do you want spicy I can pretty much you know in the red or i can
Go apple or citrus on right i think i can get everybody’s gauge from that but it’s sure it’s tends to be the bill at the end of the day and i try to be conscious about it but there’s a lot of people who don’t don’t always understand
That all agree um so there is a group of people that we go out with in some form or fashion with some combination of them and i know at some points that the price of the bottle doesn’t matter mmm and i say doesn’t matter within reason not
Doesn’t matter like hey or two thousand dollar bottle of wine um because we’re not going to places like that most of the time especially with that large group of people um okay pretty much not at the time we’re going to put anything yeah would then i would order a bottle
Like that but if i order a bottle with a group of say six or eight of us that costs 120 bucks at the restaurant you know we’re gonna be happy to order a couple of those bottles throughout dinner if we want and be fine but i know
That audience and i know the price points and other comfortability with what we’re doing for how I’m going to say little or whatever we all get together but there are other people that I know won’t um so in that case I’ve been fine if I really want a nice bottle
Of wine even if I think that people won’t appreciate is much as I will I’ll offer to them but I’ll do that and I will personally offer to buy that bottle of wine oh very good instead of splitting that with the group as we normally do as I said there’s a
Group of six or eight of us I mean between couples there’s three or four couples and we go out and you know we just solved through credit cards you know and in the mix at the end and they split it up and there’s people that don’t care they like the wine or they
Don’t like the one if they don’t like the first one we order another one whatever um but there are people I would go out with it I’m like hey we’re in a nicer place but I know that maybe cost is a big thing to them especially for y
So if I really want a nice bottle wine I’ll just say look I’m gonna order this and I’m gonna take the cost of that one and that’s how I’ll get around that part of it a little bit but don’t go ahead John I think a solid tip to take away
From here um is that if you have a group that doesn’t know what they really want um and trying to be conscious of the price point offer like you said to pay for the bottle if the group doesn’t really enjoy it or doesn’t want to do that and then use your own deductive
Reasoning look at what is what is on the table look at what people are ordering what the mood is the season is um I know sorry gives a big advocate of you know make the wine match the food and it’s in it’s a solid yes it’s assault be a
Hundred percent agree with that that’s why i love that stalling tactic our time earlier like let’s stall and see what everyone ordered and then well pick something perfect for everyone’s dish why you ordered your meal you have this you have pork you have chicken you have stable red bottle of white let’s make
Everybody have you got you gots 2 i’m ordering a red and white and pouring them together like whatever sangria all around exactly the other thing with that i would also say is you’ve ruinous airily wine people but want to look to you to order wine that’ll go with a meal
Um and I’m just throwing this out as a number and I know different places in the country have different economics but um so assume there’s four and a half the four to five glasses in a bottle of wine um stick with a 40 or 50 stick with ten
Dollars a glass or under like that’s a good hard and fast point did you order a cocktail it’s going to cost you eight to ten bucks arm you know what’s it depending on where you are I mean we’re in the DC area so it’s a
Little more expensive if I go an order a bourbon or Sazerac or whatever somewhere but if you stick to ten dollars or less per glass on that bottle so you’re looking at a forty to fifty dollar bottle even non-experience wine people are gonna be like all right well I had
Two drinks and they were ten bucks apiece yeah and that’s a I think that’s a pretty good rule it really is because people unfortunately even outside of DC are getting very used to spending between eight and ten dollars for a glass of wine just I mean that goes
Right back to that rule number epsilon that the you know the first glass of wine pays for the entire bottle from a restaurant standpoint people are not lose to that concept yes but I wanted to thank you so much for joining me again this week and co-hosting this with me we
Are right at around seven o’clock and that’s the top of the hour brand time to end the recorded portion of this awesome thank you everybody and I look forward to this being released on YouTube and everybody else enjoying this I hope that we shared some amazing tips cool thanks
Chef thanks everyone else oh no